Your Secrets Are Making You Sick w/ Marcy Axelrod
Dotco. What if the things you hide from yourself, even small traumas, are keeping you stuck on autopilot? In this conversation, performance intelligence expert Marcy Axelrod shares her journey from childhood stuttering to developing the show up system used by thousands to break free from just going through the motions. A two time TED Talk speaker and former consulting leader, Marci explains why we're all bouncing between three levels of showing up throughout the day and how disconnection from yourself creates everything from that extra drink to feeling like life is stale. We explore her three role framework for understanding behavior and technique for shifting out of autopilot mode.
Speaker 1:If you've ever wondered why you can't seem to change despite knowing better, this framework might make it easier to understand why. Let's get started. Marcy, thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Mike, what an honor. And we're already having fun. We haven't even started. Right? Isn't that the way life ought to be?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I already got, before we hit record, I got a whole re tour of your house and your art. So I you know, we're already friends talking here. And I want to jump right in because in your TED Talk, you talk about secrets, the things that we hide that we can either become sources of shame or they can be sources of strength. Can you share your own story and how it led you to the work that you're doing today?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'll definitely share my own story. But one thing before that, you know, the is that secrets, we all have things that we don't want to admit to ourselves. Any version of trauma or challenge that's deep enough leads us to cleave from ourselves and to say, I'm not going to cope with that. The relationship with my mother or my partner or my child or myself, or the fact that something scared me when I was very young and now I just don't speak up because I'm afraid of what people will think.
Speaker 2:Whatever our secret is, know that it is causing us to not live fully in our authentic self. And you might say, You know, I hear that word all the time, but so what? The so what is that you're literally making yourself sick because you're designed to show up on the planet a certain way, and I can talk about what showing up is, and the thing is you're not doing it. And every day it bothers you. And it's going to come out maybe in an extra drink, maybe in a single drink, maybe in not being able to do as well at the gym or just feeling like life is stale.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we can put the symptoms aside, but I really wanted to say that about the word secret. As you can imagine in TED Talks, Mike, every word is junk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course. You know, before that, I want to follow on a question. So secret. Do you define secret in this context a little bit different?
Speaker 2:Well, so in the TED Talk, I say we all have secrets, things we don't want anyone to know. So this then gets at the definition of self. Is anyone someone other than who you believe to be the I, me, mind part of your ego driven self? Or is it the large S self, right, that it is you and everything? It is how you move through the world.
Speaker 2:So I define a secret as things that you don't want to contend with yourself or it basically creates a wall, a barrier, to your truly showing up in the world. And we will get to what truly showing up is. It's not just showing up, and it's not barely there.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Should I answer about my secret?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I wanna I wanna know the the backstory that has led you to these insights.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So pain. In this case, both emotional yeah. Mostly emotional pain.
Speaker 2:When we my parents got new jobs. I was six years old. We moved from Baltimore to Boston. The way that showed up for me, little six year old Marcy wasn't getting the attention that she needed. My parents were just busy and ambitious.
Speaker 2:No malintent. I still felt love, but I didn't have the support that I needed. So the environment then brought out the genetics. And my throat started to lock. So stuttering is in the family.
Speaker 2:And the teacher would ask a question in first grade and my hand would go up. And everyone knew that what's going to come out is some version of a syllable trying to be pushed out, It was just awful. And I would feel this incredible stress. But really what I learned, the whole class responded to me and they responded with this, Oh, they felt my pain. And I had a choice right then and there.
Speaker 2:I mean frankly it was an unconscious choice because I was six. But how am I interpreting this? Do they not want me around? Do they wish I'm not here? Because I think that's where a lot of people's minds and body goes.
Speaker 2:Where my mind went is, Oh my god. We are not Grants. This is one of the big lies that we all grow up with is you're not this other kid who's there. Well, why is it that you can feel what they feel? Why is it that in that class, they felt me?
Speaker 2:But it didn't stop there, Mike. I felt them feeling me, And I probably didn't stop there. They probably felt that I felt that they felt. You see where I'm going? We are all constantly designed by, and that's another word I use in the talk, we are designed by not just what happens to us, which I prefer to say is for us, but we are designed by everything outside of us and how we choose to make sense of it.
Speaker 2:We can get into sense making. Right? Are you six months sober or are you a non drinker? What's your identity? Because that projects out how you show up to the world is how the world shows up for you.
Speaker 2:All that we're ever doing is seeing a reflection of ourselves. So if someone's not kind or you feel like they're judging you, I mean, who taught you that? Why do you believe that? What's really going on is that you're expecting how someone feels, and it's coming back at you. You're projecting onto them.
Speaker 2:It's a left hemispheric activity. I can explain how that works. When you're in that mode of attending, you can only represent the past. You see bits of things. You're not in the flow of life.
Speaker 2:You can't actually perceive anything new that's really going on. So my secret was that I couldn't speak. It took me a long time to understand why. And we can relate this to any version of addiction, overwork, buying things that you don't need, not being able to get rid of things, any kind of addiction, eating more than you want. But in essence, everything is some version of trying to avoid pain.
Speaker 2:And I didn't speak about it, the stuttering, until I was prepping for my TED Talk. And what I was saying was intellectual. It was from the mind, not the heart. By the way, no behavior change, nothing shifts from a decision. It has to be a felt experience that integrates your identity.
Speaker 2:So I didn't speak about it. Someone after listening to my TED Talk, were thousands of people on this call giving feedback. Maybe not thousands, actually, but over time it became thousands of people giving me feedback. They said, not enough of you is in this. And that's when I figured out my entire journey of showing up and why this is my calling is because of the lessons that I learned from the stuttering that we are not separate.
Speaker 2:And then later at a rehabilitation hospital where I was noticing these are people who know how they want to show up, and yet they can't. But they've got these experts by their side, and they've got these expert plans. You do these 12 things, you can then hold a fork or sit and stand. That's what led me to figure out people who can show up the way they want don't. Don't try to because I noticed that on the blacktop when I was six years old.
Speaker 2:There's a bully here, a scaredy cat there. And people who know how they want to show up, even with experts by their side or well made plans and lifetimes of wisdom, still can't show up as they choose. So where's the roadmap? Where's the blueprint? And that's what set me on what's now close to a 45 trajectory of doing global research on my own, global research with management consulting firms, and studying endlessly psychology, neuroscience, evolutionary biology, interpersonal neurobiology, Dan Siegelsfield.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I'll stop there. But that's how I got onto this.
Speaker 1:Well, first, I want to recognize that you saw that we're all connected at age So that's quite a thing. Yes. Where in between the age six and between where you began this work, were you not choosing to show up for your life that you felt that this is my calling because this is now how I'm making a decision to change and show up, and now I want to share this with others?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we're always moving along the continuum from truly showing up to just showing up to dipping in to barely there, moving into just all day we're going back and forth. So it isn't so much that I noticed I wasn't. My parents modeled for me always choosing how they show up. There are physicians, different kinds.
Speaker 2:And my mother would always say, I don't want to miss even a tiny symptom that there's a bigger picture issue with a child. She's a pediatrician. That can change the trajectory of their life for the worse. I want to notice everything. So she was already saying, she's really working to truly show up, my father as well.
Speaker 2:So I was kind of primed that way. But, Mike, I mean, anytime we have any bit of stress, you're feeling tired, you're kind of burned out from the day, you're hungry. You didn't sleep well. Someone's upsetting you. You want to accomplish something and you don't really feel like you have the right time or the right no out.
Speaker 2:Anytime there's a moment of stress, you dip from truly showing up into just showing up because it distracts you. What you have to do is calm the body and be with it. And then from there, make a conscious choice. And I can talk about ways to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I do. And so we've been throwing out the term showing up. And so you've developed a framework for that. So can you walk us through that core framework that you've developed?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And so I definitely will. And I think Mel Robbins, who wrote the quote on the cover, I think also very much supports this. The subtitle really shares a lot, nature's playbook for creating a meaningful life in the world that we want.
Speaker 2:So humans are nature. We are not on the earth. We are of the earth. Quantum mechanics is showing this more and more. So the model is that we, like every tree, every idea, every government, every moment of social justice, every everything, every vote, we are in three roles.
Speaker 2:Okay? We are individualized selves, which people I think readily feel. But we're also what, Mike? What's going on right here right now?
Speaker 1:I don't have the good answer for You
Speaker 2:are everything that you're doing right now is because of me. The fact that you're sitting here, the fact that you're smiling, the fact that you're listening with that intensity. It's designed by the moment. You are a member of a situation. There's something going on right here, right now.
Speaker 2:And guess what? It's changing me. The chemistry of my body is shifting right now as we connect. Our brain waves were you and I in an MRI, and the study was done at Stanford, Harvard, and Cornell. It shows that brain waves resonate when two people look into each other's eyes.
Speaker 2:And these are strangers who've never seen each other before, and it takes mere seconds. So how we show up at each moment or any moment is largely designed by how we choose to presence within the moment. I call that being a situation member. I keep things really simple. So we're a self.
Speaker 2:We're a situation member, but what else are we? You're a member of something beyond yourself. Call it society. Call it Boulder, Colorado, where you moved three weeks ago. Call it a religion, an ethnicity, an industry group, an expertise group, a family.
Speaker 2:You're a member of something well beyond yourself. So we're in those three roles at every moment. And the way that I define showing up is a belief system about how the world works that reconnects you across all three of your roles within your individualized self so that you can ground yourself and contend with that pain, to reconnect yourself thereby with your moment and live meaningfully and reintegrate yourself within the more that's out there. I will show you a very simple image and it absolutely changes everything about your life. It might seem intellectual, but it's not.
Speaker 2:We're in three roles. Each role has a skill, self.
Speaker 1:Anybody just listening, can you describe what you're showing?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I have a target like, image that has, you know, in essence, most of a rainbow red on the outside going to green in the middle. Red is barely there. Orange in the middle is just showing up. Green in the center is truly showing up.
Speaker 2:And I just divided it like a peace sign into three parts with three roles because you've got a self, you've got a member of the moment, which is a situation member, and you've got a societal member role. Those are your three roles. And then when you slice across it, you get this continuum from red to green. Level one, barely there. Level two, just showing up.
Speaker 2:And level three, truly showing up. And I can get into neuroscience of each, the emotional state of each, how they feel, what you do in each, what your relationships look like in each, whether or not you reach for that second piece of cake or that drink. Is existential. It is determinative. And it's relentless, Mike, because you can never not be showing up.
Speaker 2:And here's the beauty and the magic. The world is gonna show up for you as you show up tomorrow. I can explain that, but we'll stop there. So that's just the tactical aspects of the model. Forget model because model is abstract.
Speaker 2:Right? What do you feel in your body that determines what you do? So we can get to that next or whenever you want.
Speaker 1:I love all of this. So I'm curious to know where do you find people having the most difficulty or challenges within one of those three categories?
Speaker 2:Well, within the roles? Well, gee. I mean, society makes us individualize self. It's all about I, me, mine. Think about it, Mike.
Speaker 2:Self care, self help, even self compassion. It's like, Really, people? Guess what? It's not about us. It's about everyone else.
Speaker 2:It's about our contribution. It's about we are drops of water in the ocean. Does one drop of water in the ocean say, I need some self care? Does one blade of grass look at another and think, I need to be seen a certain way by that blade of grass over there so that I actually feel sufficient about myself? Or does one tree look at another?
Speaker 2:You know what? I deserve a little bit more CO2 than you do. And here's why. This is ridiculous. So the challenge is that we're taught to be an ego.
Speaker 2:This whole concept of branding, I can't stand it. It's so misunderstanding the way things work. We are co creating each other in the world at every moment by what we choose to do, how we choose to feel, and how we choose to think. And those are three things: think, feel, act. In my TED Talks, you might have heard the quotes from Nicholas Christakis.
Speaker 2:The 20 people around us are 45% more likely to do what we do. Don't forget doing is also thinking and feeling because that's what precedes your doing. Even if you're on autopilot, which 95% of us areI actually just read about that inwhich book was that? It might have been Joe Dispenza's book about shedding your identity. Anyway, I'm kind of going off, but what I really want to get back to is the healing and the performance and the meaning, the depth of relationships, all of that come from reconnecting ourselves with the large S version of self, which is we are an instance of life.
Speaker 2:We are an instance of everything that's going on. And you can literally heal your body that way. You heal your relationships that way. And recognizing how showing up works really helps you with that because we're all bouncing along. This is a permission system.
Speaker 2:We're all bouncing along this all day long. You might wake up, you feel great. At some point you've done some really good work. You're exhausted. Exhausted.
Speaker 2:You need a break. You need to walk around the block, but you may not because it's freezing outside. So you don't really repair as much as you need and you go from level three to level two. And then there's a meeting and someone's just in a bad mood and you kind of leave that grumpy and you move down. Right?
Speaker 2:But then before you go home and see your children, you stop. And you breathe and you reset yourself and you drink your water and you think about your shed or daughter who you're lucky enough to go and see in two minutes when you go and see. And everything shifts. What you're doing is shifting from your left hemisphere into your right. And the child before you goes from this object who has ticking you off in the morning because they're bitching about, you know, their chore that they don't really wanna do.
Speaker 2:And they go back to that that thing of awe. I can't believe you exist, And I love you so much. And that's what you want to walk in with. And what you just did is you went from here to here. So I'm showing people you're moving from kind of being on the cusp between level one and two, between barely there and just showing up, into truly showing up.
Speaker 2:And when you walk into the house, guess what? You're going to walk more slowly. And your feet are going to feel the floor a little more deliberately. And your entire energy is gonna be one of love, of compassion, of nonjudgment. And maybe you just pause and kinda lean on the doorpost.
Speaker 2:And your child's in the kitchen and they see you and you see them. And they pause and they just look at you because your energy preceded you like it always does. You've done this enough now where they just look at you and their body resets because of you. Remember I said the world shows up for you? This is it.
Speaker 2:Their body starts to reset because of you. And they kind of put their arms down and they say, I love you, dad. So you see how this works. And I can get into a lot of the mechanics. But I'll pause there.
Speaker 2:Was why here?
Speaker 1:I'd love to know a little bit more about once somebody understands this and accepts it, what's the next step that you generally take people on?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the next step, and this is one of the key questions that people ask. And if it's okay, I want to reground us, if I could, Absolutely. In Every moment of our lives, how we choose to show up, you can simplify it into you're either going one way or the other. One way is toward some version of fear.
Speaker 2:I need to be seen as. I need to prove myself so that I deserve. Fear, I'm lesser than. Or the inverse of fear, I'm better than. When you're in any of that, you're moving toward pain.
Speaker 2:No one is going to feel connected with, to, or for you. That's part of the show up lexicon too, becomes with and for. And because of that, there's kind of a lack of trust, and relationships are superficial. The boss won't feel loyalty. You won't have novel thoughts that come to mind.
Speaker 2:You won't be doing your best. Is going to be a struggle. You're going to create all these behavioral approaches to behavior change. Behavioral approaches to behavior change don't work. It's about your identity and your beliefs.
Speaker 2:But the other trajectory, when you're not going toward fear, you're going toward love. Love is a very high level of resonating in this universe, and everyone feels it. And then all of a sudden you don't judge others. The person in the meeting always talks over you and makes you feel like you're the size of a little inchworm. You start to look at that person and say, like, wow.
Speaker 2:You know? Did anyone hug them this morning? Like, you start to have compassion. You start to say, you know what? I'm gonna ask them about their day before the meeting.
Speaker 2:Oh, I just remembered their child was sick last Friday. Hey, Joe. How's your daughter doing? So the moment you start to resonate in a positive way toward love instead of fear, everything about having you show up shifts. So getting to your specific question, what can people do right there, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1:It's so difficult to when you start to recognize this, and this is not to put anybody else on different levels by any means, but that autopilot, I see it, and it makes me sad when I see it in others.
Speaker 2:That's that's showing up with love. That's a right hemispheric, emotional, like, based response. That's you are truly showing up when you feel that. So the question is, how do you be on autopilot less? Okay.
Speaker 2:There are mechanical ways to do it and then there's a way to make it more of a habit. What
Speaker 1:would be an example of autopilot that you could point to?
Speaker 2:Oh my god. You bet.
Speaker 1:Just so we could have our minds wrapping around or maybe placing it in in our own lives or maybe those that are around us.
Speaker 2:Anytime you're in get it done mode, anytime your focus is narrow, think about it this way. You wake up, your alarm goes off, you're exhausted. And what do you do, Mike? You just start doing. You take the phone or the thing, you turn it off, you walk down the hall, you brush your teeth, you put your stuff on.
Speaker 2:Did you notice anything new? Anything did anything not did any new life show up for you? That tells you that you're in that you're on autopilot. It's a it's a left hemispheric, habit based, ritual based way of just getting stuff done. And your focus is small, the bone, the toothbrush, the clothes.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter that, oh my god. Your 12 year old son is asleep upstairs. The gratitude, it's totally absent. So how do you not do that? The first way to do it is to basically have reminders every two hours.
Speaker 2:Have an alarm go off and just reset. It's an embodied experience to change hemispheres. So what you do is first you do breathing exercises. I like the five in, hold for five, five out. If you do it five times, great.
Speaker 2:If you can do it 10 times, great. Journaling is massive. When you journal, you're transducing something from an emotion into a physical movement of your hand and you are creating new connections in your mind right then and there, and you feel it in your body, you're also working through lotions. Most people don't say, I did this, I did that, I did this. Most people say, I was working on this, and it felt Here was my lived experience.
Speaker 2:And if I want to change this And you get new ideas. When new ideas are showing up, you're truly showing up. That's a truly show up experience. Anything that's where you, Oh my god. I never thought about this.
Speaker 2:I've been dealing with the same thing for five years and out of the blue, like, woah. Okay? Yeah.
Speaker 1:There are periods where you go through and it's like the ideas aren't flowing and then all of a sudden they are again. Know there's definitely marked periods that I think anybody listening noticed that. So something must be going on between the first experience that's blocked and the other one that's open So and
Speaker 2:I'm going to give one more recommendation, and I say this on a lot of podcasts, it's so effective and I get feedback. To shift into your right hemisphere such that you can truly show up. Because you can't truly show up in your left hemisphere because you're just a human doing. You aren't able to notice, to take note of how you are showing up when you're a human doing because you're analyzing stuff. Abstracted It's state.
Speaker 2:You're in the map, not the territory, as Alfred Kaczorbski explains. And because of that, you can't perceive like, you can't be up on the mountain looking down at yourself when you're like that. So you know you don't have the dual awareness that mindfulness offers. So when you shift, let me explain a very simple thing. Look at someone.
Speaker 2:You can be looking at a photograph. It can be in a magazine, a newspaper, or you can look at somebody across a parking ladder you know, in your office in the next tube. Doesn't matter who. Just look at them and let your body soften, your gaze soften, let your muscles relax. And what will happen is you will shift from your head mode into your heart mode, and you will start to pick up, how does that person feel right now?
Speaker 2:Wow. They're working really hard at something and they're struggling a little bit. You know what? They're really tired. Oh, look at them.
Speaker 2:Look at her rub her eyes. Is she worried about something? So what's going go on now is that your body is shifting to feel what someone else feels. And what's happening is the islands of words that separate start to break down and merge. And now you are interconnected and you are intra connected at the same time.
Speaker 2:So inter connecting is with someone else or a whole group or an emotion or an idea. Intra is that this also happens within your reconnected self. So you aren't pushing pain away as much and cleaving off the truth about who you authentically are. You are reestablishing yourself as one flow system. The heart is beating.
Speaker 2:There's electromagnetism going on. There's oxygen and CO2 moving around. There's blood moving around. You're a flow system. I don't know how many cells were killing and regenerating every moment.
Speaker 2:But just like nature, nature is the system that naturally destroys and recreate itself more every second than anything else. So we become more of the natural system that we are instead of the system like, Here's a bunch of lies about how to succeed living outside of nature in a city with a bunch of crap that doesn't really exist, but you're told it exists. You basically re human yourself in that moment. And that's a really great way of shifting. Do it every day.
Speaker 2:This is minutes. Two minutes, three minutes. If you can last five, do it for five. But do it every day. What you're doing is myelinating the connection in the brain that enables you to shift from this analytical, bit focused mode that's not in real life to putting yourself back into the human lived flow of the universe.
Speaker 1:It's easy to get into this mode for people where it's me against the world. But that's so much more difficult to go through life. Right?
Speaker 2:Well, right. You also have no sense of meaning. When you have no sense of meaning, what's happening is you're separate from yourself. When you're separate from yourself, you feel pain. What do you need to ameliorate the pain?
Speaker 2:Drinking, driving too fast, destroying your friendships, eating, like all the addictions. So this is big. Feeling disconnected from yourself and others is an illness that creates really the vast majority of the issues that exist in the world. It was David Bohm, a contemporary of Oppenheimer and Einstein, who said, The biggest problem we have in the world is the illusion of separateness. Think about what happens when we evolved.
Speaker 2:We are living in a tribe now, and all of a sudden, one person is left behind. Is that person alive tomorrow? So we we needed to have this absolutely core drive to stay with the tribe, to stay connected, to stay alive. That is what we're fighting against when we have some kind of issues that we don't resolve. And most of us do.
Speaker 2:Our parents were busy. They had to make a living, and maybe we didn't get all the love that we needed. For me, thank God, I always felt loved. For me, it showed up as stuttering. What a gift.
Speaker 2:What a gift. You know what I'm saying? So if people could just sit down and live in the discomfort and say, What the hell is it? Addiction is a perfect response to pain. It's perfect.
Speaker 2:There's nothing wrong. It's a developmental response. By the way, there's a lot of research, and Gabor Mate explains this in a very clear way. ADHD, ADD, I shouldn't say all, but a lot of these things are healthy adaptations to the pain of not getting the love that we needed when we were young. And that's a broad thing, the love can take a lot of forms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but dealing with that pain.
Speaker 1:So you see the pain as the gift. By the way, love Gabor also. He's amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 2:he's absolutely amazing. We are most gifted in helping the world with what we specifically dealt with. Right? So I couldn't show up as I chose. That's why this is my being.
Speaker 2:Right? So let's figure it out and choose how we're showing up. And I'll stop, but I can help people to do that.
Speaker 1:It sounds like once you start to you can finally untangle that and identify what's going on and why you are behaving the way you do or why you think and feel the way you do. But until you do that, you're almost like you said earlier in this autopilot mode or reactive mode with unhealthy behaviors and reactions.
Speaker 2:Yep. Yeah. That's exactly right. And you're not in your societal role very much, and you're not able to deeply presence in your situation member role. So you're really it's you you struggle to be here now.
Speaker 2:Maybe you say, I meditated, I work to be mindful and all this stuff. What's the picture on the puzzle box? Showing up includes the emotional intelligence and the mindfulness and all the performance stuff. It's the picture on the cover of the puzzle box. You need to understand it's a situation member role that you're in, and it's your contact point with reality where your self role and your societal member role come together.
Speaker 2:So you are in the morgue that's out there and interconnected within society, and you are bringing an interconnectedness with self. And then it's what enables you to be right here, right now. That is what enables you to presence. And I like the word presencing because everything's a verb. Everything's an ongoing thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like showing.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been incredible. I want to kinda, like, bring this home a little bit here. So if we were to zoom out on all of your work and the things that we've discussed here today, and I think you touched a little bit on this in many ways just now, but what would you want people to understand about themselves and about what's next?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Know that every moment you're choosing how you show up. You get endless choices and chances to choose how you show up. So do it because the world's gonna show up for you as you show up to the world. Right?
Speaker 2:And one last thing. Sit down and write what you believe about the world. Is it a symbiotic world where we're all here to help each other, or is it there to go get you?
Speaker 1:I think that's just the greatest way to end. Before we go, though, if anybody listening wants to find out more about your work, where they can go to connect, let us know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Choose to show up dot com. And you can adjust my email, Marcy Pat choose to show up dot com. Please be in touch. I really always wanna know what's resonating, what's not making sense, what do you think is a bunch of crap, what's useful.
Speaker 2:Let me know.
Speaker 1:Marcy, this has been incredible. Thanks so much for coming on. Anybody that wants to reach out, she's super inviting and welcoming if you couldn't tell by listening. So thanks so much, Marcy.
Speaker 2:Mike, thank you. We're all doing the same work, right, trying to help the world.
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