Women, Cancer, Alcohol, and the Power of Rebuilding w/ Rosamund Dean
Welcome to Journey to the Sunnyside. I'm Mike Hardinbrook and today we're diving into an incredibly powerful conversation with Rosamund Dean. In 2021, Rosamund faced a life changing diagnosis that reshaped her perspective, her identity, and her path forward. In this episode, she's sharing what it was really like to go through such a profound experience and what it takes to rebuild your body, mind, and life afterward. If you've ever wondered what true resilience looks like or how to find strength in the toughest moments, you won't want to miss this one.
Speaker 1:Okay, Rosamyn, thanks so much for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:I just loved our last conversation, so I'm really glad that we can continue it here. And this is a really deep conversation actually on a very serious topic. So, you let's just get into it because I really want to hear your experience and thought on this. So you had a breast cancer diagnosis in 2021. And obviously, that would be a life altering moment.
Speaker 1:Can you walk us through what that experience was and how it impacted you initially?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So I was diagnosed in January 2021 with at the time I was very naive about breast cancer. I didn't even know there were different types of breast cancer. So, when I when I first got the diagnosis, I it's funny because I I wasn't initially scared. I I was kind of like, Oh, well, you know, this is something I'm gonna have to go through.
Speaker 2:I don't want to lose my hair, but I'm gonna have to do chemo. But I didn't ever think that it could kill me. I really thought breast cancer is something that's very survivable. Lots of people have breast cancer, it's going to be fine. And it was only as I went through the process and did further tests, and my diagnosis was stage three, grade three, triple breast cancer, which is kind of the most aggressive type.
Speaker 2:And it was, it was, it had spread into my lymph node, luckily not any further than that, but I basically caught it just in time. So it really was like I I dodged a bullet, really. And I'm incredibly lucky that we caught it in time for treatment to be curative. But treatment was really, really brutal. This five months of chemotherapy, which I lost ordinary hair.
Speaker 2:I went into early menopause. It was like what? Then mastectomy surgery, radiotherapy and then further year adjuvant chemotherapy to reduce the risk of recurrence because the type of breast cancer I had comes with a comparatively high risk of recurrence. So, it's I know people talk about getting a cancer diagnosis and how scared they are, but for me, it was kind of the wrong way around. Like at the beginning, I was like, okay, breast cancer, let's get this done.
Speaker 2:And then as I went through it, I realized the reality of it, and that's when it kind of sunk in. And yeah, it was it was always emerging from treatment at the end was almost the worst part because that's when. It was always like PTSD, I guess. I hadn't I hadn't really got my head around what was happening to me until afterward, until I came out the other side. That yeah.
Speaker 2:Really, really hard.
Speaker 1:Obviously, it sounds really scary even if you weren't initially scared. So your initial reaction, I wouldn't say you're telling me that you were wrong, but you were just surprised later. If you were looking back and to tell maybe yourself or somebody going through the same thing with going through what you did initially, What's the type of mindset or what's the type of thing that you would want to plant in somebody's mind to start thinking about?
Speaker 2:I think what I would say is to let people help because people want to help you. Your friends and family, they can feel quite helpless when someone they love is going through something like that. They can obviously feel quite helpless and they really want to help. And I think when you're going through cancer treatment, especially chemotherapy, you can feel a bit, if you're used to being a very busy person with a lot of responsibilities, you know, I had two young kids, I had a busy job, I wasn't used to just kind of doing nothing or resting. And when you go through chemo, you have to.
Speaker 2:You really you have to take proper time off and you have to step back and you have to rest. So it's it's about not feeling guilty about that because I did, looking back, I wish I had felt less guilty and I would say less guilt, more gratitude. Just embrace people doing things for you and just be grateful for it because people are amazing. And my friends and family really stepped up in a way I couldn't even have imagined. Even people in my name, in my local community who I didn't even know very well, who I maybe just knew because they are the moms on the school run, they would like leave a lasagna on my doorstep.
Speaker 2:You know, just really, really kind things like that. I think that was one of the biggest things that that was one of the nicest things to come out of it, that sense of community, and I felt really loved and cared for. Yeah. So that would be my advice. Less guilt, more gratitude.
Speaker 1:Yes. That's that's beautiful. Well, you know, it really makes me think about a lot of instances in life that so many of us have a hard time accepting help, even when it's just nice little things or accepting gifts and feel guilty about it. And you're saying that you got to let that go. And you got to let people help you.
Speaker 1:Because that's helpful to you and to them.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you mentioned that writing about your experience was cathartic. What role did documenting your journey through this entire process, like your column in the Sunday Times plan helping your you to process this what you were going through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was actually amazing because when they asked us to write the column, so my husband is a journalist as well, he works at Sunday Times, and they asked us to write a column throughout the year, the first year of my treatment, where we kind of each wrote our own take on it. And it was so interesting because in what other situation in your life would you sit down with your husband or partner and write down what you've been going through and how you're feeling and then kind of exchange those because, you know, we would write our columns separately and then show them to each other to kind of make sure that they complimented each other before we filed the copy to our editor. And it was just an amazing experience, really, when we were going through, and I was writing about how I was feeling emotionally, like losing my hair and feeling really physically weak and overwhelmed. He was writing from the point of view of being the person that's caring for the person going through that, which is really, really hard because nobody really cares about you. Nobody asks how you're doing.
Speaker 2:Everyone's like, Oh, how's Rosamund? How's she getting on? Chemotherapy? Oh. Like, it was all the focus was very much on me.
Speaker 2:And I know that it was really, really hard for him and he was so amazing. He basically negotiated this web, also I should say it was during the lockdown of the COVID pandemic, said the schools were closed. He organised this bubble where we could have childcare, where we had friends, where we could leave our kids so that he could take me to chemotherapy, and it was a lot of logistics. Yeah. He was amazing.
Speaker 2:And and so writing that column together allowed us both to kind of process how we were feeling, and it was really quite cathartic.
Speaker 1:I think that's incredible that the two of you were able to connect and really grow from the experience together and understanding each other better is what it sounds like. And I know that I haven't gone through a crisis with a capital C, I guess. But I go through everybody's little mini crisis. And there there is real power in pen to paper, so to speak, because a lot of times we just think we're thinking through things and I've already thought through it. I've, but there's a whole process when you put something down in writing.
Speaker 1:Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. I think writing it down is really powerful.
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of writing it down, you ended up writing a book about this entire experience in your life. What what did you hope to gain from that and for people to understand?
Speaker 2:So book is called Reconstruction How to Rebuild Your Body, Mind and Life After a Breast Cancer Diagnosis. And the idea is it's not just it's not about breast reconstruction. Obviously, I do cover breast reconstruction in the book, but lots of people don't have or want or necessarily need breast reconstruction, But it's more about putting yourself back together afterward. Because, yeah, like I said, at the end of treatment, that's when it really hit me emotionally, but also physically, because I remember thinking, Why am I not recovering from chemotherapy? Why don't I feel better?
Speaker 2:Because I was still dealing with all the symptoms that I had when I was going through chemo, like really intense fatigue and brain fog and low mood. And then I realised that chemotherapy had caused early menopause, those are all also symptoms of menopause. So which my oncologist had not talked to me about at all. So I think I really wanted a kind of guide. Obviously, I read a lot of books diagnosed with breast cancer and they seem to be either very kind of medically books written by doctors or they were kind of memoirs about somebody's sort of emotional experience.
Speaker 2:What I really wanted was just a really, really practical guide that was almost like if your best friend had been through it and you went for a coffee with her and she just told you all the most useful information. That's what I wanted it to be. And that kind of almost like one of those pregnancy books, like what to expect at every stage down to what to pack in your hospital bag. You know, this the little things that you actually need to know that nobody tells you. So, yeah, that was why I wrote the book, and a big part of it is kind of putting yourself back together again afterwards and also, you know, working out what your identity is after breast cancer, because cancer treatment is such an assault on your identity, especially if you lose your hair and your breasts and your fertility, and, you know, it's it's a lot.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of rebuilding yourself afterwards as well.
Speaker 1:I'd like to talk a little bit about, moving into early menopause because I think men, particularly men in their 40s, need to have this conversation to understand more. The only way to do that is to really have these conversations. And so, you know, this is for me also a learning experience, but I'd love to know, how did you navigate those physical and emotional challenges, and what advice would you give to others that are facing the same situation?
Speaker 2:Well, I would say it's different for everyone. This is this is one of the things about menopause. There are about 50 different symptoms. People kind of get them in different, you know, they they might not they probably they won't get all of them.
Speaker 1:I did listen to one podcast where I was like, took notes on all the supplements and talked to my wife. And yeah, but that really didn't really line up very well, you know, some of the other information that she felt was more aligned to her. So what you're saying there? Well, I guess that's my best attempt, but it seems like a very complicated thing. I gave you a very, like, simplified question.
Speaker 1:So my apologies for that.
Speaker 2:Oh, no. No. Not at all. Not at all. I mean, it is different from that.
Speaker 2:I mean, the main menopause symptom that I knew of before going through it myself was hot flushes or hot flashes and nights. And that was something that I didn't experience at all. Didn't it didn't even happen to me. And I was a bit like, oh, I can't be menopausal. I'm not having hot flashes, which is crazy.
Speaker 2:But I didn't I had no idea there were all these other symptoms. So, yeah, it's really a case of, again, being mindful and being aware of your body and how you're feeling and then kind of targeting each symptom individually, because for many women, if they've had, if they've been through breast cancer or they have a family history of breast cancer, then they are unlikely to have HRT. And so, you know, you always have to look at each symptom individually and deal with it on its own. But one of the biggest things for me has been lifestyle changes because, well, drinking less alcohol has a huge impact because lots of the symptoms of menopause are exacerbated by drinking alcohol, for example, anxiety, brain fog, low mood, fatigue, all of those things you're exacerbated by drinking. So, drinking less alcohol improves that, but also just eating really healthily, loads of veg, loads of fibre, and doing exercise, which was a big one for me because I've never been an exercise person.
Speaker 2:So, when I realised the impact it can have on your overall energy levels, mood, how you feel like right now, today, let alone the benefits it's going to have down the line in the future in terms of heart health and bone density and all of that. Yeah, it's really powerful. Basically, you have to exercise. You do. There's no getting away from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, it makes you feel good. Once you get into that mode, then you look back and you're like, oh, I need to have it because it actually does give you it can turn a not great day or wrong side of bad day into a pretty good day, you know? And so you got to look at I got you got to look at what you're going to gain from doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk a little bit about alcohol and breast cancer, those links, because obviously, the in The US, the Surgeon General just issued a new warning to have the labels put on in but although it's been well documented in the medical community that there is a link, what is what's your research telling you and what's your kind of take for yourself when it comes to, you know, occasionally and having a drink and just your outlook in that regard?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the first time I started looking into this was in 2017 when I wrote my first book, Mindful Drinking, and I was shocked when I saw the research showing a really clear causative link between drinking alcohol and breast cancer. There were over 100 different studies really clearly proving the link, and I know the World Health Organization advised now that there is no safe level of alcohol and with every drink your risk increases, which sounds very scary. But I prefer to look at it as with every drink you don't have, your risk decreases. You know, if you would normally have like five glasses of wine on a night out and instead you have two, then you've decreased your risk. So it's all about I think when it comes to cancer, you could do everything right and still get there.
Speaker 2:Like sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to it. I don't think there's any point in saying really definitively do this, then you'll get cancer or do that and you won't get cancer because you can't. You can't. It's just about risk reduction or increased risk, basically. So to reduce your risk, definitely drink less alcohol.
Speaker 2:And I have found it that I found that to be the biggest incentive for me. I was on that mindful drinking journey anyway before I was diagnosed. And now I would say I'm not completely sober, you know, I still have the occasional drink, but it's so rare. Sobriety is the norm. And for me, having a drink is kind of the exception to the rule.
Speaker 1:I think I couldn't agree more because it's really important to have the knowledge and to take the actions that reduce your risk. But it also, if you worry about it a lot, then they'll tell you that you'll get cancer for worrying. And I'm not trying to downplay the severity of it of the warning in any mean. But at the same time, at some point, you know, in my Instagram feed, had to just turn off all the microplastics, all the everything and every chemical and I mean, just can't eat or drink or do anything. It's good to have some knowledge, but I think it just comes down to everything in moderation and just have the knowledge if you're going to do something, not to overdo it.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing. You've got to live your life. And I do think some women get a breast cancer diagnosis and then they hear the evidence about alcohol, and they're kind of like, What? Now, on top of everything, I can't have a glass of wine. Like, what the hell?
Speaker 2:They don't want to hear it, and I totally get it. I think, you know, you've got to start where you are, and reducing your alcohol intake by any amount will have benefits. So that's a positive way to look at it, I think.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been really amazing. If anybody wants to find your book or reach out, you know, can you tell us a little bit of information around that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So my book Reconstruction is available, I guess, but, also, hopefully, at the bookshop. And I'm on Instagram at Rosamundine and Substack at rosamundine dot substack dot com.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, that's great. Thanks so much for coming on, sharing your story, being totally open, and really great insights. And I just had a good time too.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number one alcohol moderation platform. And if you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free fifteen day trial.
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