Why High-Functioning Women Are Rethinking Alcohol w/ Heather Lowe
Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, the podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and of course, your own mindful drinking journey. Today, we have Heather Lowe, founder of Ditch the Drink, to unpack a quiet truth. Many high achieving women are rethinking their relationship with alcohol, not because they've hit rock bottom, but because they're ready for something more. In this episode, Heather shares her own story of success, stress, and self discovery, and the mindset shifts that helped her walk away from drinking without shame or labels. Whether you're sober curious, cutting back, or just wondering if there's another way, this conversation is full of support, strategy, and hope.
Mike:Okay. Today, I have Heather Lowe. Heather, thanks for coming on today.
Heather:Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here.
Mike:Well, I'm definitely stoked to talk to you. We talked a little bit about Chicago because anybody that spends any time in Chicago loves to talk about Chicago.
Heather:Yeah. Definitely. It's a great it's a great place to be. I'm actually born and raised in a small town in Wisconsin. But as soon as I graduated from college, my husband and I now husband who's boyfriend at the time, moved to Chicago, and we we haven't left.
Heather:We've raised our family here. It's been probably twenty five years, and I love it. I think I said to you, my husband always says, best city in the world, four months of the year, and that's often the the summertime is the time that you've spent a lot of time in Chicago too, which is a good choice.
Mike:Yeah. What's the saying goes? Something like, if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes or something like that?
Heather:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Mike:Yeah. Well, if anybody's listening and they're from the Chicago area and they wanna talk Chicago and any other things, you know, reach out to myself and also Heather.
Heather:It sounds good. Yeah.
Mike:Today today, I wanna talk about your story, about how you're helping people, about strategies that you have that can help people that are listening today. But let's take it back. And before you went through this entire transformation, life changing direction, where were you in life and also with your drinking that maybe it seemed even when everything was working, it just felt out of place?
Heather:Yeah. Yeah. Such a good question. So I took my first drink when I was 12 years old. And that sounds alarmingly young, of course, but growing
Mike:up in Wisconsin, a
Heather:little bit. Right. I was maybe little bit late.
Mike:Off track.
Heather:So Exactly. It was definitely you you've hit the nail on the head. It was definitely part of the culture. Right? It was just par for the course.
Heather:And I, my dad was a bartender. Say he took his work home. He eventually he quit drinking, you know, when I was young. So I don't think he worked any kind of program or anything like that, but alcohol was a visible problem for him, and he quit. So you would maybe give him a traditional label of alcoholic because it was the seventies, and he was that guy.
Heather:Right?
Mike:Mhmm.
Heather:My parents met in a beer tent. And so I'm like, well, you know, who was I not to have a problem with alcohol eventually? So I knew, from first sip that I loved it. I mean, I don't think a 12 year old is supposed to love beer, but I did. I loved it.
Heather:And I drank through high school, and I loved it. We were drinking in fields and barns, and I was flirting with boys and having fun with my friends. And I'm an extroverted person, And I love to party. I love to be around people. I love to hang out.
Heather:I love to dance. I love to listen to music. I love to socialize. So it suited me very well. I I just I I knew it was, like, a magic bullet from from the start.
Heather:I kept drinking in college. I think it's a great way to connect and find friends. Now I had a fake ID. I was getting into the bars, a little classier than the bonfires and the, you know, fields of Wisconsin. I was at dance clubs and on dance floors, and, know, there was three dollar pitcher night and peanut night, and there was always a reason to go out, and I always had fun when we wanted to go out.
Heather:So, again, I had the time of my life. After college, my husband and I, he was my boyfriend at the time. We moved to Chicago, and we got jobs, and then we had a little more money. And we worked at a place that had a lot of new grads, so it was kinda like the college after college. And, again, we met friends.
Heather:We were going to happy hours. Now we're going to Cubs games and rooftops and dinners, and, I was drinking a little more expensive drinks, and we were having fun. We were definitely having fun living it up. I, I got pregnant with my first daughter, and I didn't drink during pregnancy. But soon as she was born, a little bit of wine in the afternoon.
Heather:You know, it felt very European, and, I liked it. I enjoyed it. There was a there was a myth that said I don't know if it's true or a myth that said, a little alcohol helps your breast milk come in. So I love to believe that. And, then I had my second daughter.
Heather:Again, didn't drink during pregnancy, but as soon as she was born, was happy to toast that with a glass of with a glass of wine. My husband traveled a lot for work, and I worked part time and then was home with the girls part time. And so my social life came to a crashing halt, right, with two little ones. Mhmm. And I was lonely.
Heather:My husband was gone, and this was a decision we made together, you know, about our life and our future. And I wanted to be the one home with the kids, but I also wanted to have a career. So it was kind of a stressful time burning the candle at both ends, you know, like rushing to work and then rushing home, to get them from daycare and feeling like I wasn't doing the best job at work, and I also wasn't doing the best job at home because I was trying to do both and fit right into that mommy wine culture, that dinnertime, bathtime, bedtime routine every single night with two little ones and a husband that traveled and being an extrovert and, you know, trying to keep up my job and trying to keep up my house, a little bit of wine took the edge off that, and it seemed very normal. It was very normalized. And, again, I knew I'd like drinking more than everyone.
Heather:In fact, my 20 birthday was my golden birthday, and I wrote in my diary that I was afraid I was an alcoholic. I would end up quitting twenty one years later at age 42. So I had this internal voice that said, like, you like this a little bit too much. You're relying on this a little bit too much. But, again, I was surrounding myself with drinkers because I love drinkers because I was a drinker, and my drinking didn't seem that far out of the norm.
Heather:I didn't have any of the consequences that you would expect to have from somebody that was drinking too much. Right? I was moving up in my job. I was moving up in my career. And I was, in sales, and I was often the only female and all male sales teams.
Heather:Drinking part felt like part of the job. And, again, I was good at it, so I could hang with the boys club. And and I could drink, and I could get access to decision makers at bars and happy hours and networking events that things that I couldn't do in the office. So drinking was an asset, and it really helped me. It's seemingly for a long time.
Heather:I guess it turned into more of a visible problem when my tolerance started to increase. Right? I started to drink more, and then it was having like, I was being hungover more. My hangouts were getting worse, and depression and anxiety was setting in. But, again, it was very gradual.
Heather:It was like a frog in boiling water. Right? I didn't see it happening as it was happening, but it was definitely happening. I started to, not be able to have fun without it. Like, I had to have alcohol to give me that uptick every day, and my first drink was gonna be the best uptick I was gonna get that day.
Heather:And so I think that's a sign. If you can't feel good without it, you're probably relying on it a little too much. But I was also hit with some devastating loss in my life. In a span of three years, I did three eulogies. One was for my dad, and the other two were for my friends that were my age that were left without warning and, shocking and very quick endings.
Heather:So now my drinking turned into, like, self medication. Because I did the eulogies, I wanted to perform. So I did I did a great job performing. I did a great job standing up in front of everybody and and sharing the story of their life. And when the services were over, I told myself to get over it.
Heather:So I had never given myself space to grieve, and the truth is I had never learned how to cope with feelings anyways. I had my first drink at twelve. Alcohol was there for sunny days and rainy days and celebrations and disappointments. And so it was no different than what I've always been. It's just I was hit with something a little more harder and more intense.
Heather:And I didn't know how to process that grief, so I drank and I drank and I drank. And, I was getting to a point where I didn't recognize myself. Right? And my inner circle was starting to worry about me. My anxiety was through the roof.
Heather:And so I in a panic, I called my employee, assistance program, and I asked for a therapist with substance use background and training. And I thought this was like an emergency situation. And after a series of phone calls and paperwork, they said, we'll see you in three weeks. And so it's like, this is an emergency. Okay.
Heather:So three weeks later, I'm sitting in her office, and I'm telling her I think I have a drinking problem. And she said, no. I didn't have a drinking problem. I had an anxiety prob. And the biggest problem with drinking was that my kids were witnessing and kinda bothering me about it.
Heather:And so I should just take this, antianxiety medication, and I can keep drinking, but just drink literally hide in my closet, which was a a bonus room off my bedroom, and don't let the kids see it. That was her advice to me. But I this is terrible advice, by the way, and not every therapist is gonna give you this, so this was just my experience. Okay? But I was delighted to hear that advice at the time.
Heather:So I got my meds, and I told everybody good news. I don't have a problem. The professional just told me there's no problem drinking. Right? I can keep drinking, and now I just won't have so much anxiety.
Heather:Well, what I know now is the meds mixed with the alcohol, turned me into a walking blackout on a few occasions.
Mike:Yeah. That's a danger. I have to say, though, you know, it's so funny because so many of us seek out that label so we know that what direction we can. And you were you didn't necessarily seek the label, but you wanted the approval or disapproval, and that that consequently led down the the story further as you go on.
Heather:Yeah. I mean, how interesting that I'm saying I have an alcohol problem and somebody else is saying, no. You don't. Right? The who the and I'm trusting that person over myself also That tells you where I was at in my life.
Heather:Okay? And so yeah. So, now my now this drinking and meds, like, I've lost my memory. You know? It was like, there were just a couple situations that were ugly, and I used to know how much I could drink to reach a certain effect.
Heather:But when I added the medication, it was unpredictable. In fact, there would be, like, a holiday weekend of drinking the whole time, and I would have hardly any drinks, and I would be, you know, a mess. So there was definitely something going on there. So I had tried different, like, alcohol free experiments. I would give it up for a period of time.
Heather:My first experiment, I went for a hundred day a hundred day alcohol free challenge, And I made it to seventy days, and I thought I was cured. Thank goodness. So then I went back to drinking. And I would do this on and off for three years, periods of drinking and periods of not drinking. With the goal being, if I could quit, I didn't really have to quit.
Heather:Right? Mhmm. And I always say, like, my worst case scenario was death by alcohol. Like, I would I would never want that to happen. My second worst case scenario was getting sober.
Heather:I did not Yeah. This person. And those seem
Mike:like Those are two hard things to to look at. You know? Yeah. You know, before you go on, I wanna ask, in that point, maybe maybe it was before, maybe it was after when you went to that therapist or maybe it was after that therapist. Was there a specific time that you started really like, was there a moment that you just had a conversation with yourself and you said this has gotta stop or change?
Mike:Like, was there anything, or was it ongoing that just finally just I need to tell somebody?
Heather:It was definitely ongoing. I mean, it was the inner conflict. It was the war within. It was the I wanna quit I I I wanna quit drinking, but I wanna drink. I think I should quit drinking, but right now, I really wanna drink.
Heather:Or Yeah. Making private promises to myself. I'm not gonna drink today because I was hungover when I woke up, and I overdid it the night before. And by 01:00, two o'clock, definitely by 03:00, I was starting to plan my how I was gonna acquire alcohol.
Mike:That is the most vicious cycle that there is because you wake up resolute, and then you break your own promise. And then you feel shame and doubt and low self worth, and then it rebounds, and then you repeat it.
Heather:Over and over again. And I did that for a decade, I would say.
Mike:Yeah. Me too.
Heather:So yeah. I mean, I have a thirty year drinking career, but probably for at least ten, it was that. It was I should really do something about this, and then I can't. And then when I wouldn't do something about it, it would be like, oh, you're being so dramatic. You don't actually have to quit for good forever.
Heather:Like, stop being so drama. You know? Like, just control it a little bit better. Just drink less. You know?
Heather:Whatever. So I did. And then the other thing that's a little bit tricky is sometimes I did. Sometimes I might. Sometimes I kept my premises.
Heather:Right? So that led me to believe that maybe I could. You know? And now I know that alcohol is an addictive substance and all these things. And there's different there's different ways that work for everybody, and drinking less led me to drinking none.
Heather:So I think that's a beautiful start, and I would never deter anybody from looking at moderating or drinking less or becoming aware, at least becoming aware, getting a little more honest with themself. I think that's a great start. Because if you had told me, if I was gonna evaluate my relationship with alcohol, that meant I could never drink again, I might be dead from alcohol reign. Right? Like Yeah.
Heather:Like, if those were the only options, I don't know that I would have ever explored that because, like I said, sobriety terrified me as much as death by alcohol.
Mike:So You can only do as best as you know how in the time with the information that you have. And sometimes all the information you have is to drink a little bit less, even if maybe the better outcome should be not at all. But it's an easier first step to start moving there. And then maybe when that point comes where you might wanna make that decision, you might be able to do better than you were before.
Heather:Yeah. And what I always say is, like, let that the person that gets there decide. Like, you become somebody different when you change your relationship with alcohol. So when you're evaluating like, for me, my first hundred day experiment that ended up being seventy days long, That was not a failure by any means. Because I went seventy days alcohol free, and there is no lost work.
Heather:And in those seventy days, what happened is my confidence grew.
Mike:Mhmm.
Heather:I started to believe in myself. My head hit the pillow at night, and I didn't hate myself. I was waking up proud. I was putting in these new self care routines that I had never done before. I was getting more honest with myself.
Heather:I was becoming my own friend, and I had always been my own worst critic. But I started to talk to myself with compassion instead of, critique. Right? And so I fully changed in those seventy days. Now it would take a couple of years and a couple more experiments before my final day one, but none of that was a failure.
Heather:All of that led me to where I am now, which is over seven years alcohol free. So but my last statement
Mike:Rearman gets you one step closer to where you're supposed to be.
Heather:And you learn about yourself, and it's a practice. Right? We're practicing drinking less. We're practicing being alcohol free. And, sometimes that's a step forward and a step back to ultimately figure it out.
Heather:But I think when we're I think okay. Women, anybody, let's say, but women especially because that's who I work with, we're so we're such high achievers in a lot of areas of our life. We're able to project manage most things in our life, our job, and our household, and our hobbies, and things like that. And we're perfectionists, and we're people pleasers. And so not drinking alcohol is different than all those things, and it's it makes it especially hard for us.
Heather:Right? Like, if we can't get it on the first try, we wanna just give up. Or if we don't think we can do it perfectly, most of us don't even wanna tell anybody we're trying, me included, because what if we fail? And the likelihood is we're gonna fail. But we don't even wanna say it out loud.
Heather:But if we don't tell somebody what we're doing, how can they support us? Right? If we don't say it out loud, how does it even become a real commitment? It doesn't. It's just these secret bargainings where we're just chipping away at our confidence all the time.
Heather:And so the things that we need to do to be free from alcohol are the exact things that are kinda hard for us to do in our in our life and we're not trained to do. And they're all the things we try to avoid, which is not being perfect or not achieving what we set out to do on our first try.
Mike:In that journey, as you moved through that, you know, it sounds like you experimented a lot. Take a break. Drink less. At what point especially for anybody that's listening that might be doing really well and they're saying to themselves, you know what? I'm doing so well that I'm I'm actually thinking about going the route that Heather went.
Mike:So at what point did you kinda just say, you know what? I think that's it.
Heather:Yeah. It it was it's it can happen at any time. So mine was like a random Wednesday in February. It wasn't Sunday or Monday. It wasn't the first of the month.
Heather:It wasn't you know, so these things, give yourself a chance because it can happen today, right now. You know? It you don't have to wait for for any kind of date. But it was like, I was very disconnected from my husband. I was between jobs.
Heather:I wasn't proud of my parenting. I didn't recognize myself in the mirror. I was so bloated and puffy and dehydrated. My friendships were questionable. I had so much shame.
Heather:I was waking up miserable every single day. And they say I have a high bottom because, like, I didn't have a policeman or a doctor or a lawyer involved in my ending, But I'm it's hard for me to imagine it could get so much worse than waking up miserable every single day. Like, it doesn't have to get worse than that. That's bad, and I just wanna say. But that's where I was at.
Heather:And I really didn't see a future for I didn't see a future for myself with alcohol, honestly, if I was gonna stay with my husband or not. Either way, it felt like I have to ditch the drink. Like, this is not going anywhere. My health So was
Mike:before or after the seventy day break that you took? After. Was the seventy day break on your way with the goal in mind of just giving it up?
Heather:No. None of none of my breaks had the goal of giving it up. I think that's I think that's a great question, and I think that's a kicker because all of my breaks were to keep alcohol in my life somehow. All of my breaks were to just do a reset or, give myself a pause before I went back or, prove that it was no problem for me. So Yeah.
Heather:I didn't want you know, all the breaks were to keep alcohol in my life. My my final day one, I was like, I don't see a future with alcohol. It's not good for me one way or another, and it's not it's clearly not helping in any category of my life right now. I mean, I'm depressed. I'm miserable.
Heather:I don't recognize myself. I don't have a job. My husband my kids are I don't I don't see where this is going. I'm gonna give it a go. And I think this is the difference.
Heather:I was like, I'm gonna give it a real go. I was half assing it all those other times. Right? And I was willing to throw the kitchen sink at it. And the kitchen sink was scary to me because the thing the ways that I knew how to quit drinking were AA, which didn't feel like a fit, or rehab, which also didn't inpatient rehab, which also didn't feel like a fit.
Heather:And so in all my experiments, I was avoiding those things. And in my final time, I decided I'm gonna do I'm willing to do everything and anything to ditch the drink. That includes if I have to go to rehab, I'll go to rehab. If I need to go to an AA evening, I'll go to an AA evening. Mhmm.
Heather:I was willing to do everything. Yeah. And so that was different. And then I also asked for help. I fell to my knees with my husband and said, I need to do this, and I need your help.
Heather:I need some help. And I had never done that before because I'm a strong independent woman. I got it. Right? I got it all, and I don't need no help from nobody.
Heather:And it was, like, the first time in my life that I surrendered and was like, I do need help. And so I didn't go to AA, and I didn't go to rehab. I I did quit without those things. Now I know those would have been beautiful options that I could have and probably should have taken much sooner. But at the time, I was scared of them, and I didn't know.
Heather:And I just built my life every day, day by day, one day at a time to do that. New learning how to cope, learning how to feel, learning how to change routines, learning how to stay on the same page with myself. And that grew and that grew and it grew. And then so the advice that I give to people who are listening is the other thing is, like, I think giving yourself a full break from alcohol is the best. And if you wanna go back to it, you can decide.
Heather:You can have a period of time drinking and a period of time not drinking and then decide. But when you it takes a while for your body to detox, and it takes a while for your systems to get back to a new status quo without alcohol and, like, for your feel good chemicals to come back online in your brain because you've been artificially stimulating that with alcohol and all these things. So what happens to most of my clients is once they take a break, they they stop desiring. Right? They're not attracted to alcohol anymore.
Heather:And then you could when you start to feel good without it, the feeling good can fuel itself to wanna keep feeling good, and then you don't want it. But that's the trick because early sobriety is hard, and you're gonna wanna drink. And you're gonna have to fight that craving and figure that out. Right? But long term sobriety, I don't wanna drink ever.
Heather:I don't desire it. And even now, I get triggered. I don't get triggered to drink, but I get there's a storm raging inside this body, and I don't know what to do with it. Right? Like, I wanna escape this feeling that I have.
Heather:I wanna not feel this way. I wanna get out of this situation or this circumstance or this this discomfort that I'm feeling, but I know now that alcohol wouldn't be the answer for for me.
Mike:Yeah.
Heather:For but it used to be my only answer. So I had to figure out new ways to take care myself, which is the beauty of sobriety, really.
Mike:Yeah. Well, so there's so much that you've said that I identify with, and I think a lot of people can, especially the way that you grew up, your background. It's it's fun. You're young. It's fun until it's not fun, and then you're an adult and things change and your tolerance grows.
Mike:But there is one thing that you that we're talking about here that I don't talk about all that much, but I have written in my book, and that is an extended break for me and for you and for some people is really the catalyst to real change. Because for me, it was. Like I said, I finally took it serious, and I said, I'm not doing this thirty day thing. I'm gonna do sixty days this time. And I got to the sixty days, and I was like, you know what?
Mike:I'm gonna go for ninety days. I'd never done that, you know, in my adult life. And then I went, like, practically a year. You know? And then it's like, once you get past that so in my book, I really talk about the Lally study in the sixty six days, but honestly, personally, because I think that this is more of a moderate to complex habit that ninety days is probably more likely.
Mike:Now it doesn't have to be a complete break for anybody that's moderating. I also believe that if you take a significant step back and stay consistent over ninety days, then you also can lock in those patterns as well. But for me and some personalities, it sounds like you, the real change can also happen with a total reset. And and I don't talk about it that much because I feel like it's a little prescriptive, and it might be too restrictive for some people that they're it's too big for them to even start even if it's ninety days. But but I do hear and identify with what you're saying here.
Heather:Yeah. Yeah. So my one on one program is ninety days for that reason. A little bit longer is kind of exciting. And some people describe it as, like, a short airplane flight or a long airplane flight.
Heather:And a short airplane flight, thirty days or less, you're just sitting and waiting to get off the plane. Yeah. You're just gonna sit and you have a quick flight. You're just gonna sit and wait to get off the
Mike:plane. It's why I failed all the time in the I'd go thirty days all the time. It was hard, but nothing changed. I was like I've read books on thirty day re resets, but then once I researched my book, these thirty and twenty one day things are more set because they're easier to sell from a marketing standpoint.
Heather:It's unmarked in the store. Exactly. Buy ins. And, again, it's a low buy in. It feels doable.
Heather:So I'm for it. Right? But it is a marketing thing more than a a health thing. The longer flight, the ninety days, the difference is you're making yourself comfortable for the ride. So you might put your seat back.
Heather:You might download a movie. You might wear an eye mask. Use your essential oils. If you're me, you get a pashmina. Like, you make yours you have a cup of tea.
Heather:You make yourself comfortable. And sobriety isn't just sitting and waiting to drink again. And that's what twenty one days, you're just waiting to it's a good start. It's a good start. And if that's what Yeah.
Mike:It's it's good if you do it. Right.
Heather:Go for it. No lost work.
Mike:Yeah. But both necessarily expect a complete shift in mindset and lifestyle.
Heather:Exactly. You it was an experiment, and you learned some things, but you didn't reset anything. Right? But the longer you go, then you can make yourself comfortable. And then the truth is that's what happened to me was, like, I actually felt good without it, and I liked feeling good.
Heather:And, eventually, that's what brought me back to to doing that again. You know?
Mike:Isn't that amazing how that happens? Because I actually think the first thirty days anyone that doesn't identify with taking the extended break, just imagine the thirty days being whatever reset in in your plan for you is because you get to choose your goal. But for me, the thirty days is the hard part. Once you get to, like, sixty days, sixty to 90, you start cruising. And once you go that's why once I passed 90, I went a year and I barely thought about it.
Mike:And, like, this past year, you know, when I was in Chicago, I didn't drink the whole time I was there, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take a break. I went in, like, five months and I barely thought about it. Like, I really didn't. Once you once you get past that initial what you're used to doing and break that pattern and give it enough time, you're you're whatever you're thinking the ninety days will be or thirty days will be will not continue for the next whatever amount
Heather:of time you want three times. Like, the person you are on day thirty is different than the person you are on day one, and the person you are on day six
Mike:day, and you would think it it it wouldn't be, but it is.
Heather:Yes. And the science is actually that you, the benefits increase the longer you go without. The benefits are increasing, and it becomes more effortless. Like, the first time you go to happy hour and you have to say, dudes, I'm not drinking, that's hard. The fourth time you go to happy hour, they know you're getting the alcohol free beer.
Heather:It's no big deal. Nobody's harassing you. You know, like, the first time you do anything is hard. So the in thirty days, you're doing everything for the first time. You're having your book club.
Heather:You're going to your softball game or you're having that happy hour or you're and you're not drinking. And you're you maybe have a holiday in there and you're not drinking. And you're having a birthday or a celebration and you're not drinking, a sporting event or concert. But after you've done it the first time, second time, it's a little easier. Third time, it's the norm.
Heather:Fourth time, you wouldn't see it any other way.
Mike:Actually, fourth time, I think it's the cheat code. So you get to go, have fun, not worry about how you're gonna be drinking, and the next day you wake up clear and awesome, and you're like, hey. Everybody else that was at the party that overdid it, they're like, I'm way ahead of everybody. I'm out doing stuff today, having fun or relaxing without thinking about it.
Heather:The best if I feel like sobriety is, like, the best surprise and secret. Like, it is sold as, like, a sad, somber, depressing life. I mean, it's not. Even when kids are like, I stayed up all night and played games, and I went for my run this morning. Right?
Heather:Or, like, I'm not hungover at brunch. I killed it last night in the dance floor, and I'm killing it at lunch today. I feel good times two. And when you're drinking, you're, like, waiting to the end of the week to have your drink, waiting for the end of the day to have your drink. You're spending your whole life, I was, waiting for my drink so I could let the good times start.
Heather:Right? And now the good times are always good times. Now I'm not, like, selling a lie that I don't have hard days. I already told you I get triggered and things happen, but I feel good most of the time. And I'm not waiting for any reason to have a good time.
Heather:I'm able to do that on Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons and, you know, anytime at all, I'm ready to go. So Yeah. It's the bright is a beautiful light. It's it's the sunny side for sure, and it's just not sold that way most of the time. We've we've been told, like, it's gonna be sad, and we're gonna be left out, and we're not gonna have any fun, and that's just not true.
Mike:Yeah. I think, you know, that sort of that is tied to some people that are sad, that are pity party, that do sit around and complain because of their situation, but that's not only isolated to alcohol. That could be any any circumstance in life that maybe somebody doesn't feel like it's fair, and all of a sudden they're the Debbie Downer or whatever. And, you know, I I totally agree with you. Most of the time, I don't drink.
Mike:I'm not attached to forever commitments. I mean, there but most of the time, I choose that I'm not gonna drink. My original goal was I used to drink every night after work to be able to shut down, and I no longer wanted to do that. And by doing my reset, doing my work, and staying consistent over the years, I no longer have that in my life. And most of the time, I choose not to drink.
Mike:And I actually don't talk about this all that much. Usually, I'm talking to the guests, so you're pulling it out of me a little bit.
Heather:I love that. That's what your coach does.
Mike:It is not. It is not. But it I I confirmed what you're saying is where I'm going in this roundabout is that there's nothing sad about it. There's nothing sad about not drinking if you put that
Heather:And I wanna be clear. Some people Yes.
Mike:Are happy if as long as it fits your lifestyle. Lifestyle.
Heather:Totally. And I wanna be clear. Like, some people are like, do I have to, like, quit drinking forever if I work with you? No. Like, you get to set your goals.
Heather:Right? And I get to support you. And I have a client who I've worked with for a long time, and she wanted her default to be not drinking. So she wanted to not drink most of the time and then sometimes choose to have a drink. And I supported her in that, and we figured out ways to make this work and all these things.
Heather:And we've been working together for a long time. Well, eventually, you know what? She's almost a hundred and fifty days alcohol free, and she can't find a time where she would want to add that back in. You know? So that's what some people's journey looks like.
Mike:Yeah.
Heather:I have another client who is, like, not drinking, but maybe not necessarily feeling all rainbows and sunshine about it like I do. And she talked to me about that, and she was somebody from London. I know there's a stereotype about British people, but I've said, have you ever? She's sort of a Eeyore type of person. And they said, have you ever felt this way before you drank?
Heather:And and no. And I'm like, well, then your personality is not gonna turn from, like, a pessimist to an optimist necessarily. You're not gonna your whole personality might not change. If you've never been that excitable or enthusiastic, quitting drinking might not change that, but it might bring an inner peace and calm. It might bring a higher level of confidence.
Heather:Right? Like, so I just wanna be clear. Yeah. Like, not everybody is jumping off, shouting it from the rooftops and and feeling as happy about it. But I say that's how I know alcohol was a problem for me.
Heather:I know alcohol was a big problem for me, not because of anything bad I did while drinking, but because of how darn good I feel sober. Like, clearly, it was taking something from me if I was depressed every day and miserable in my otherwise perfect life. Because without it, I'm happy. I wake up excited. You know, I'm in a work that I'm aligned with.
Heather:I'm connected with my family and friends. I have adventures and health. I'm physically feeling better. I feel so good now that I know alcohol was a big problem for me because I didn't feel this way as a drinker.
Mike:Ah, it's so good. So let's shift a little bit here, because you specialize in helping women. So why do you think high achieving women or maybe I'll present. Do you think high achieving women struggle more and maybe more silently because they have to be strong than some of the other other archetypes of personalities out there?
Heather:Yeah. I mean, I can only speak to myself and the people that I work with, but I think we never wanna admit anything's wrong with us or, like, we have a problem with something or, like, we can't manage or navigate something or, god forbid, we need with something. So I and I think it's covered up. I think it's covered up because we don't have such obvious consequences. Like, in some ways, COVID, people's drinking really escalated really fast, and then they they were forced to address it really fast.
Heather:Right? So in a way, that's a that's a blessing that that it was a a quick spiral to to get help, let's say.
Mike:Yeah.
Heather:For for people like me, it's just like a low level, low bar. Like I said, like a frog boiling water, like, over, for me, thirty years of, and I always say, like, why you wanna dull or dumb yourself down even a little bit? Like, just a little bit. So it's like trying to maintain this very low level thing while really struggling. Emotionally and mentally and spiritually, I was suffering a lot, and I I couldn't talk about it because I was a caregiver.
Heather:A lot of us are caregivers, and we're taking care of everybody else. And we don't know how to pay attention to ourselves, and we don't know how to make ourselves a priority. We haven't been trained to do that, and we don't wanna call ourselves names or labels or bring attention to ourself for our problems in any way. We don't know how to get help, and we think we're supposed to just be able to take care of it. And or the messages that we're sending in marketing is like everyone's doing it.
Heather:It's very normalized. And I will say, I didn't necessarily drink the most or worse or anybody in my crew. I mean, I looked like everybody else for the most part. Right? So I think it's harder to identify if it's a problem.
Mike:Yeah. So I actually you hit on something there that I find, in just thinking about these topics and writing for myself and my own journey and listening to yours is that I'm not gonna say it's worse, but it's harder to identify what the choice is moving forward when you're in that sort of in between stage of not drinking in a place that you're happy and not so far into deep into it that it's obvious what the what you need to do. Now the difficult part when you're in there is actually doing it. However, not only do you have to figure out how to do it, you have to figure out, do I actually need to make a change when you're in this middle ground? And I find that a really difficult, and sometimes that's when you go twenty, thirty, your entire life in that place.
Heather:Yeah. I think a lot of people do. I think a lot of people go their whole life being dulled and dumbed a little bit, and it's just in the way of your full potential. And we know that, honestly, for health. Right?
Heather:And just for brain science, for neuroscience, It's just, putting a a film a little bit of a film of a gray cloud where you can't quite see clearly. And it's not devastating in a lot of ways, and it's not tragic in a lot of ways, but also kind of isn't it? You know? To just Yeah. I mean, I dirty glasses on.
Mike:You know? You wanna reach your highest potential, your greatest version of yourself, you know, at some point. And for many people, that can keep that from happening.
Heather:Yeah. And like I said, I drank for thirty years. And probably just the last few, there were a handful of moments that were I'm not proud of, obviously, or were a little public, and I was a little too drunk a little too soon. That was witnessed by a few too many. And, that's embarrassing.
Heather:That's horrible. I hate it, but that's what it was. You know what I mean? I wasn't I don't know. I wasn't laying in a hospital bed with a diagnosis or on the front page of the news for driving or any of those things.
Heather:So, yeah, it's it's a bigger question mark. But that's a lot of them insecurity, and it's a lot of shame. It's just living with shame too for a very long time because I didn't like myself as a drinker. I didn't like myself at all. And, I had to learn to be my own friend.
Heather:I had to learn how to love myself and take care of myself. And I always say I have these, like, before and after pictures that look kinda drastic, and I always say they're not weight loss pictures to be clear. I weigh the same in both, although it can. I look dramatically different, but I give credit to the person in the before picture. That puffy, bloated, sad girl, she's the one that made the change.
Heather:She's the one that took the first step out of that hole. So it's not just praising like a shiny after picture. Right? It's thinking that person in her darkest saddest, grief, struck, most confused moments who was just trying to survive. Alcohol was just a solution for me for a long time.
Heather:It was that person that took that first step out. Right? And so I don't hate her anymore. I don't shame her anymore. I forgive her.
Heather:She was doing the best she could, and and I am still now. And thank goodness I found some other ways, some other coping tools, and some more support for myself. But it was it was when I was at my lowest point, that's the person that took a step in a different direction.
Mike:What a great insight because self love and compassion, not just for the version of who you are now, but the previous version that did the best that they knew how and made those decisions to get you where you are now, so, so important. So speaking of which, where you are now, what made you turn your own personal journey into one with a platform that helps others?
Heather:Such a good question. Yeah. I think for nesting Russian nesting dolls and all of our previous versions just live inside of us. Right? So it's cute.
Heather:Ditch the drink. Well, first of all, I was unemployed. I needed a job. Okay? So I don't I
Mike:Thank you for your honesty.
Heather:That's so I had been, like, sober for one year, and I was unemployed. And I started I wanted I I degree is in social work, and I had been doing human resources and sales for most of my career. So I when I found the keys to the kingdom for sobriety and I realized how beautiful it was and that there was ways to do it that weren't in rehab, that there was other option, immediately wanted to turn around and help the woman coming up behind me. I just felt like we were all drowning in quicksand, and I wanted to hold out my hand. And so I created a digital class.
Heather:And it was a passion project. It it was a it was a hobby, but because I couldn't because I I was interviewing for jobs, and I was about to get the offers for these jobs that I could do, which were the jobs that I had done, which were not jobs that I wanted to do. I was never aligned. Even though I was the top salesperson at times, I I was it didn't sing my soul. I wasn't aligned with selling HR solutions.
Heather:Okay? I just said it. And so I really wanted to help women. So I, said to my husband, I think I'm gonna, like, do this for a job. And he's like, can you make any money at it?
Heather:Meaning, like, a dollar. You know? And I was like, I have no idea because I've never done this before. Right? But I I created the course, and I sold the course, and it started my mom was the first student to sign up.
Heather:So that was pretty sweet. And I I got a name, and I got a software, and I got a computer. And I was like, okay. The store is open. You know?
Heather:I put I put all my email addresses, my own email addresses on my email list. I asked some friends if they would go on my email list. I asked my husband if he'd go on my email list, and I and I started writing a weekly newsletter to nobody really and and started to grow. And, actually, the first person that signed up for my newsletter, I'm still in contact with, and she's, over five years sober now. So that's pretty cool.
Heather:But from there, I got trained as a coach, a recovery and life coach. I wanted to get some real training. I became a she recovers coach. I took, got a certificate of well-being from Yale University, and I became a law of attraction coach. So once I had all my credentials, then I started coaching women one on one.
Heather:And, it just continued to grow. Now I have a membership. I have a I I have all the things. Right? And now I help other people that wanna become coaches, and then I help them start their businesses, and I have a podcast, and it's it's just grown.
Heather:But the cute thing is I was working in my that bonus room closet where I was supposed to do be doing my drinking is where I started with a little desk. And when I was young, I was like a latchkey kid, with a single mom. And after school, I used to, sit in my closet, and I had a business called Dare to Dream where I wanted to help people live their best lives by journaling. But the only client I have, I tease, is like my cat. So I was in the business of helping cats live their best lives.
Heather:Anyways, I was, just starting Dish to Drink, and I was in this closet. And I realized DTD, Dish to Drink, was the same as Dare to Dream. And it was like my third grade self was as happy as could be, you know, starting my little business. And now I've been upgraded to the guest room, and now it's no longer the guest room. It's actually my office.
Heather:So now I'm like, it's, like, the real deal, and I've been able to help a lot of women. And it's beautiful, and I love it. And a lot of people, grow out of, like, early sobriety. Like, they get kinda sick of talking about it, and they wanna, like, maybe expand and and do something different, but it hasn't gotten old for me yet. I mean, walking fragile baby birds through that early sobriety continues to be, like, my favorite thing to do.
Mike:How you know, I I identify so much with all your story. It all sort of, like, in a completely different way and setting and obviously different people, but there are so many similarities. And to me, I was I was in marketing and software. I was, like, a founder for tech companies, a totally, like, raising VC money in Chicago, which is actually why I ended up being out there. We had offices in the merchandise market.
Mike:But there was something that just drew it to me as a passion project as well. Mine was writing a book, not a course. But in my mind, you know, you had struggled sounds like in some way or form, or there was a history of, like, thirty years. Mine was probably about the same in some way or another pretty much. But there was something in me that just said, if there's somebody else out there like me that doesn't know about these options, I wanna give them the shortcut and the easier way to get there instead of struggling so hard like I did.
Mike:Is that what you felt?
Heather:Yeah. For sure. I wanted to be a guide, and I believe in that. I still believe in that. You know?
Heather:Like and I've now had coaches in my life and guides and people to help me, whether that's in business or writing or life or whatever. We need teachers. Right? And and I've learned to ask for help, and it's it's improved me so much. We can do so much better.
Heather:And you're not supposed to know how to quit drinking if you've never done it. How would you know that? Right? You've never done that before. You wouldn't be an expert at that.
Heather:And that's why my clients are like, uh-huh. Like, I never would have thought of that because I know the pitfalls coming around the corner for them. And I can say, okay. Well, what about this? What about that?
Heather:Do you have a plan for this? What about that? And they're like, I never thought about that. That's why. You haven't been successful on your own.
Heather:Right? You you it's okay to have a guide to walk you through that. And it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It means there's everything right with you, you're willing to address your issue, and you're willing to ask for help. And I always say, find somebody who has what you want and go ask them how they did it.
Heather:So if there is a sober influencer or, a podcaster or whatever, somebody that an author that inspires you, follow them. Learn about them. See what ask how they did it, and get your road map for how you're gonna do it. For sure. We all need help.
Mike:Yeah. Well, not only that. Not only do we not know how to do it because we've never been taught many of us were never taught how to drink responsibly other than on a commercial sayings, drink responsibly. What the hell does that mean? You know?
Heather:Like, Wisconsin Wisconsinbly. That's Well, no. No. That one's
Mike:a trick. 16 years old. You go get as much as you can, and and it it leads them to college and adulthood. And so it's like, not only are you not taught how to drink when you do have a problem because you've not been how to drink or not even let's not use the word problem. Let's just say, like, not where you wanna be.
Mike:You can easily get there because you never really had a road map anywhere to begin with. And, of course, you don't have, like, the escape road map on the way out.
Heather:Yeah. And I didn't have, examples of people living a happy life in sobriety is the other thing. So that's why I think it's important what we do and that we're willing to be out loud about drinking less or none at all so we can be an example. Because, also, people that have struggled with alcohol look like people like you and like me and look like people who have been very successful in their career and look like people that love and care about their families very much and look like people that probably have some athletic achievements under their belt or right? Like, we can do all these things and also silently be suffering with questioning our relationship with alcohol.
Heather:So it's it's okay if that's you, and it's okay to address it.
Mike:Yeah. I mean, I I might come across a little bit like a jerk in saying this, but if you look at the photos of me when I was drinking, you look at the photos of me now, all I do I look the same, but just older. I you would not you wouldn't know. Like, so I, you know, I still looked fit, but I but I wasn't happy. You know?
Heather:Well, right. And sometimes, like, when it comes to fitness, fitness was my punishment for drinking.
Mike:Me too. Yeah. Me too.
Heather:Yeah. And now fitness is a celebration of my body and myself and my I'm alive. Right? And, also, I'm seven years older or really ten years older from what I where I was when I started my that first seventy day experiment. So if I can look I think it'd be if I could look the same, that would be great.
Heather:If I look even better, like, ta da. Right?
Mike:So if anybody's, like, listening I mean, it doesn't matter what your goal is. I think people are taking away and identifying with so much that you're saying. But let let's say maybe somebody's been feeling pretty good, and maybe they've been on the fence about taking a break or not or an extended break. What do you think is one mindset shift that could make a big difference? Specifically, maybe you could talk to both points for women or anybody who might be thinking about that.
Heather:Yeah. I would visualize. So I love being, like, attracted to something versus, like, running away from something. So you might be ditching the drink or, like, letting go of alcohol, but what are you going towards? And what are the things you really want?
Heather:Because it's more it's it's more than counting drinks. When I often, like, on a complimentary call with somebody, I ask what they want, and they wanna be the kind of person that has a glass of wine at dinner every once in while, especially if they're going to a steak dinner with a white tablecloth. Okay? That's when they wanna have a glass of And I say, great. Is that the biggest goal you have in your life?
Heather:Is that what you want more than anything? Well, no. They want to do these things. They wanna start a business. They wanna write a book.
Heather:They wanna, get back into their hobby. They wanna play piano. They want, you know, they wanna win the swim competition. They want whatever the things they want. They wanna live overseas or whatever.
Heather:Well, let's go towards that then. Like, let's go towards that. And how is alcohol getting in the way of those things? And it's it is getting in the way, one, because you're not feeling your best. We know that.
Heather:But also because your confidence is down. And and I say, like, everything's like everything, but ditching the drink taught me how to live. Letting go of alcohol taught me how to address every issue in my life. Letting go of alcohol taught me how to handle my own discomfort. Right?
Heather:Letting go of alcohol helped me believe in myself and become my own best friend. It gave me every single lesson I needed in life to address everything that I actually really want. My little dare to dream goals, it gave me the confidence to start my own business. So, like, who who were you at 12 years old? What were your dreams then?
Heather:And are you there, and are they the same? And are you proud of yourself? And what do you want for this life? Because our time is limited. And what are you doing?
Heather:Are you wasting time being wasted? I sure was. But what are the things you really want? Because I know you want something more than to have a glass of wine at dinner once in a while. That is such a low bar goal.
Heather:Everybody wants something better than that. So let's go for those things. Imagine the best. Visualize the best, and then, like, let's manifest that. Like, let's fill your mind and your feet and your unconscious and everything with things you really want, and it makes it much easier to say no to a drink because it just probably isn't good enough for you.
Mike:Yes. And if anybody can't
Heather:see the video, I'm just
Mike:wondering, yes.
Heather:I fast above myself. Mic drop. Okay.
Mike:Focusing on the gains. You know? No matter what decision you decide to to make, you've gotta focus on what you're gaining versus what you're giving up because that's the whole reason to make the change in the first place. So, Heather, this has been incredible. I wanna give you a minute to talk about some of your most recent projects and where somebody could reach out and learn more about you.
Heather:Awesome. Thank you. I love it. I've loved this conversation. So thank you for having me.
Heather:I love your platform. I love what you're doing. It's just wonderful to be connected with you. I appreciate it. I am ditchedtodrink.com.
Heather:You can find me on all the places you find middle aged women like Facebook and Instagram and Pinterest, and you will not find me in places like TikTok or Snapchat or whatever the kids are doing. You can go to my website. I've got tons of free downloads, master classes, tons of free resources, a blog, a blog that is six years old. So you can search whatever you're searching for, holiday, a drink, you know, whatever, a a feeling, you'll you'll find a vlog for it there. I do a weekly newsletter.
Heather:Love connecting with people. I have a podcast called the Pure Patia podcast. It's a talk show for women. So for the I mean, anyone's welcome to listen, but for the ladies out there who wanna look up different different topics, mostly relationship kind of topics, that's all at the Pure Pure Pitea Podcast. I love connecting with folks.
Heather:I love talking about sobriety, obviously, and life coaching and owning your life and ditching the drink and, making all those dreams come true. So thanks for giving me some time to talk about that.
Mike:Oh, it's been incredible. I had a great a great time. If anybody listening, reach out to Heather. She's great to talk to. Very few times while I say, like, oh, what a great interview.
Mike:This was a great interview. And I hope to see you in Chicago when I'm out there soon.
Heather:Oh my gosh. Yeah. We'll get together in person. In Chicago, by the way, shout out to Chicago. We have a beautiful, wonderful, amazing, awesome alcohol free community here.
Heather:We have so much going on. We have alcohol free bottle shops and breweries and people and events and groups, and I'm connected with as many of them as I can be. But Chicago is a great place to be sober. And if you need some help or if you're looking for community, I can definitely hook you up in that way too.
Mike:It's amazing. Alright. Thank you so much, Heather. This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number one alcohol moderation platform, having helped hundreds of thousands of people cut out more than 13,000,000 drinks since 2020. And in fact, an independent study showed that Sunnyside reduced alcohol consumption by an average of 30% in ninety days.
Mike:And as one of our members shared, Sunnyside helps me stay mindful of my drinking habits. It's not super restrictive, so if I'm craving a glass of wine with dinner, I just track it and I move on with my week. If you could benefit from drinking a bit less and being more mindful of when and how much you drink, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free fifteen day trial. You'll get access to everything that we offer, including tracking and planning tools, coaching from our experts, a vibrant community of people just like you, and the motivation and advice to stay on track with your health goals, all with no pressure to quit. That's sunnyside.co.
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