When Success Isn’t Enough: ADHD, Alcohol, and a Wake‑Up Call w/ Rick Culleton
Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, the podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and of course, your own mindful drinking journey. This podcast is brought to you by Sunny Side, the number one alcohol moderation platform. And if you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free fifteen day trial. I'm your host, Mike Hardinbrook, published author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert. Rick Culliton is a seasoned entrepreneur, investor and CEO who's built multiple multimillion dollar companies over the past four decades.
Speaker 1:But behind the success was a daily drinking habit used not to party, but to manage stress, anxiety, and ADHD. Rick drank for nearly forty years, all while running high growth businesses and appearing to have it all together. When health markers forced him to take a hard look at his habits, he made the decision to stop drinking and everything changed. In this episode, Rick shares how sobriety reshaped his brain, his business, and his life. We dive into how ADHD can be both a superpower and a liability and why you don't need to hit rock bottom to change.
Speaker 1:Okay, Rick. Thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me very much.
Speaker 1:Well, I wanted to start at the heart of this. So in your story, you drink every day for nearly forty years while building million dollar companies. And most people think that kind of drinking means total chaos, but that really wasn't your story. Can you walk us through what your life actually looked like day to day?
Speaker 2:You know, while I was in it, it seemed really normal. You know, it was the way I'd been all my life. I drank from early on, 15 or 16, started drinking regularly by the time I was 18. And so that was just all I knew. I would start drinking at 06:00 every day and drink right until I passed out.
Speaker 2:At the time I'd call it going to bed, but until I ended my day at whatever, 10:00, and then I'd wake up in the morning and I never thought I was hungover. Now I realize I was, I feel a little foggy, take some extra caffeine to get things going and muddle through the day. And I lived in a world of anxiety and even mild depression at times, and just thought that was kind of the way with entrepreneurship. You know, I dealt with the stress of, you know, making payroll and everything else and put all of that blame on outside events and circumstances rather than what was going on internally, never really realizing that it was the alcohol causing all the problems.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, I can identify to this because I was an entrepreneur that, I mean, we're talking decades also and, you know, started young. I didn't really think it was like a major problem. And even when I did, I didn't really have any education around alcohol being like unhealthy. I mean, there were points where I thought maybe I'm not being as efficient as I could.
Speaker 1:Were those thoughts ever coming up in your mind? Like maybe not hungover, but like, am I firing on all cylinders here?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't think that I did. At the time, it wasn't about work. And And I really felt that if anything, was putting in too much. Now, looking back, my results weren't as good as they could have been because I wasn't a 100% for sure. But my motivation wasn't really to do better at work.
Speaker 2:It was more of a, it was a health thing in the end. And it started with my daughter and I getting some gadgets that we wore that monitor our health and me comparing mine to hers and wondering why her numbers were so much better than that. Even when I was drinking, I considered myself to be the healthiest person I knew. I had my head in the sand so deep, I couldn't see daylight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. I felt the same way. Like I was healthy. I was doing everything right as far as my diet and exercise goes, but it certainly is a wake up. So when you started comparing that, was that the time that you started to change?
Speaker 1:Was like that actual, like the biomarkers that you were seeing there?
Speaker 2:It was, and it was a bit, it was kind of the perfect storm. So I was dealing with anxiety, not even realizing that it was caused by the alcohol. And I had started a course called Core Performance led by a woman by the Julie Hutchinson. Was already, this all happened at about the same time. I'd started this course.
Speaker 2:My daughter had asked for an Oura Ring. This would have been Christmas around 2023. And she got one, I got one almost immediately after when I was kind of impressed with the data she was getting. We started this, when you sign up with a family member, you can see each other's stats. And I started looking at mine compared to hers.
Speaker 2:And I was like, wow, you know, my heart rate variability is half of what yours is or less. And you know, all these other stats, her sleep scores were better than everything else. And I was a bit concerned. I was like, well, maybe this is an age thing. And then one day she had numbers that looked just like mine.
Speaker 2:I go, look, now we're equal. She goes, I went out and got trashed last night. I was like, oh wow. Okay. That was a bit of a wake up call.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, I started taking a closer look at that data and what heart rate variability meant. That was a new stat to me at the time. I didn't really even understand what it was. Later got into pulse wave velocity and some of the other stuff and realized that there was a really good chance that this was all alcohol cost. Everything else in my life was the way it should be.
Speaker 2:You know, I was doing, I mean, was at it. I was really eating well, exercising all the time and all the other stuff was lining up. But that was the one thing that I had, it was the 800 pound grill in the middle of the room, you know, and I was just looking around it all the time. So in this course I was taking, was really rather funny, you know, the whole turn of events because Julia told me at one time when we were discussing at the beginning of this course, she said, we talked about alcohol consumption. She said, you may get to a point where you just decide you don't even need the alcohol.
Speaker 2:And I was like, wait, wait, wait a minute. I'm perfectly fine with my alcohol consumption. Let's just leave that out of it. That's not even on the table. I had absolutely no consideration.
Speaker 2:That wasn't something I was even thinking about. At any rate, when we got into this, into the entire course, maybe just two months in or so, two and a half months in, I had the anxiety under control so well with the meditation and the other things that we were learning in this course that one day I realized that I didn't need the alcohol. I wasn't getting anything from it. I didn't need it at the end of the day to shut myself down. I wasn't suffering from anxiety anymore.
Speaker 2:And I was, I didn't think I was. It had become so much better that I didn't, I thought I was cured at that point. Then of course, once I stopped the alcohol, I realized what it was really like to not have any anxiety that took a couple of weeks after I quit drinking to see the rest of it evaporate. But it wasn't until you were outside and you're able to look back in that you can see the damage you were doing. I wonder sometimes about the rest of my life, are there other things that I'm just overlooking to such an extent that I'm blind to them?
Speaker 2:Because I sat there with that alcoholism for so many years thinking that I was perfectly fine, I had this all under control.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Cut this out. Yeah. Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1:It sounds like you almost addressed the issue with the drinking without having to go head on with it. It sounds like you did some other things to address things like anxiety that then made you realize that you didn't really need the alcohol at all, which then kind of removed that problem indirectly.
Speaker 2:Yes. And which seems to be quite the reverse of the way a lot of people go through this. First they give up the alcohol and then they find meditation or something else to kind of replace it, I suppose. And I think I slid into this whole thing sort of backwards. I didn't even realize I was doing They called them breathing exercises.
Speaker 2:I didn't even realize that I was getting into a meditation practice until I was well into it. That happens to me a lot in life. I'm sometimes a little more naive than I'd like to be. And it worked out great. You know, for me, that was just an incredible way to go about things.
Speaker 2:And it was completely my decision. And it was at a time when it was right. Day, I had no plans to stop drinking. That day I had gone out and I drank a lot of IPA and I was in Manhattan. I walked to the store in the morning and bought a rather expensive four pack, carried it home, put it in the fridge, went to visit a friend at his office outside of MoMA.
Speaker 2:We talked for quite a while, about things in general. I walked back to my apartment. It was about 05:00 in the afternoon. Normally when I'd be all geared up, getting ready to have a drink, 06:00 rolls around and that was happy hour. It's where my day ended.
Speaker 2:And instead, I took all that beer and a couple bottles of wine and some vodka I had in the apartment lot. I I don't even drink that. Don't know why it was there. But anyway, I took the vodka, the wine, the beer, and dropped it in the trash chute from the 40 Fifth Floor and listened to it all hit the bottom. And that was it.
Speaker 1:What was going through your head when you dropped it in there?
Speaker 2:Oh man, whirlwind of things. Know, I was actually really happy with myself. You know, it was like, this is in that moment, I knew this was a big, big decision. I didn't realize how big, but I knew it was monumental. You know, I'm getting ready to break a habit of thirty eight years and, you know, I've broken other habits, drugs, cigarettes, So looking back, I knew how profound those changes were in my life, picking up good habits, leaving bad ones behind.
Speaker 2:They always make positive life changes. And I was excited immediately. I recorded a video in the morning when I woke up. I looked like hell, but I put it up anyway. I'm usually pretty much an open book.
Speaker 2:So I posted that video right away. And I always believe that if you're gonna do something, tell the world. If you're gonna do something good, tell everyone because now you're gonna be held accountable. So I put that video up right away, posted it on social media like, Hey, if you didn't know I've been drinking for thirty eight years and yesterday was my last Or two days ago was my last day. I'm done.
Speaker 2:Did a couple of follow ups, but it was a rewarding feeling at the moment. It was very liberating, a little scary, to be honest, you don't know what's coming. But I knew I would deal with it, whatever it was. Just didn't know what that was gonna be.
Speaker 1:Give me an idea about how much were you drinking like on a nightly basis? Just out of curiosity.
Speaker 2:It was pretty consistent. You know, it would vary between beer and wine, but I would drink three to four pints of IPA and then anywhere from a half a bottle to a full bottle of wine.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah. It wasn't actually that far off from what I was drinking for a while. Like usually it would just be wine, bottle of wine, bottle and half wine, maybe a bottle of wine and a couple of beers, something like that, you know, like, but you know, the same way you were like in the evenings after work, get up the next day, do all your stuff and just kind of run-in perpetuum on that. When you tossed that down there, because I know a lot of people that have been listening and I know in my past that I've done this before, you pour out whatever's there, you know, you swear to make a big change and then it doesn't stick.
Speaker 1:What do you think was different? Maybe you don't have that track record, but what do you feel like maybe just really stuck this time? I mean, for example, obviously you went and posted it for accountability, but was there something that was felt that made it feel like a shift?
Speaker 2:You know, I think it's a little bit my personality and that I'm one that when I make a decision, I just stick with it. I wandered into a yoga class one day and stayed there for seven years and I hated yoga. I just, I'm not, I don't know why but when I, it's like, I don't want to let myself down. So, I real, you know, when I'm, I have to be careful as to what I do commit to for that very reason. I've ended up completing some things that looking back, I don't know if I would've ever even started, but that's kind of the way I am.
Speaker 2:But more than that, in this instance, even being an alcoholic and drinking every day, I enjoyed my life very much. And when I saw that I was jeopardizing my health and all of those things that go through your mind, am I gonna be healthy enough to be around for my grandkids and all the other things that come into it? Am I gonna lose the ability to do some of the things that I really love to do? It didn't take a lot. Like I have a zest for life and I want it, I don't necessarily care how long I live, but I wanna be able to do all the things I love to do up until the last minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. And I mean, one of the things you're saying here that like really makes me think is just how different all of us are because for some people like you, you have a certain personality that when you make that decision, then you trek that path and you don't look back. For some people, it might be more difficult. For some people, their first step might be drinking less or making some other decision or needing some structure in a certain way. And everybody's pattern in history is so different.
Speaker 1:And so I love having these conversations where, you know, in your case, you could just toss it down that chute and that was it. And it wasn't something that you were like for years kind of like thinking about doing. It was just, that's the decision I'm gonna make. And I think this leads into a good question here. And that is you've always been wired for big goals, like chasing new ideas, taking big risks, and sort of that ADHD high drive wiring.
Speaker 1:How did that same wiring wiring quietly feed into your drinking, do you think?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know. You know, I can remember who gave me my first cigarette. I remember that very moment in my life, but I don't remember exactly when I started with alcohol or even what the allure was, but I was young. In middle school, I had alcohol in my locker at school by the eighth grade or so, and was drinking pretty regularly by ninth grade, not every day. I don't know how it became so ingrained.
Speaker 2:It's kind of the way things were. And I'm glad to see that it's getting better. It's changing a lot, and I think it's all for the better. When I was younger, everybody smoked or a lot more people smoked, and it was a lack of education. You pick a pack of cigarettes and say, this might make you sick and be like, well, not me, might, not me, maybe.
Speaker 2:And then of course that message got reinforced and became stronger. You see far few people, especially in The United States smoke cigarettes anymore. And I think that that's a little bit of what happened with alcohol in addition to the fact that it was not just socially acceptable, but sort of expected. You know, this is one of the things that I found out. When I quit smoking, and this ties together quite a bit, the smoking and the alcohol.
Speaker 2:I started smoking when I was 12. And when I quit nearly ten years later, or even maybe was more like 12, all my friends were like congratulatory. Wow, that's fantastic. Even my friends who smoked were like, that's amazing. And when I quit drinking, the response was usually a question, why?
Speaker 2:You all right? Everything okay? I mean, it's just, it's so, I don't know, it's so expected. It's so social. It's so everything in this world and not just in The US.
Speaker 2:I spent a lot of time in Europe and you see it there too. I mean, it's just, it is a very embedded part of life. You're expected to drink. And so I did, I met up to that expectation and a lot of it was social. I started with going out after work with coworkers and friends, and then it became, I think that what happened looking back is that the alcohol was creating a lot of the anxiety.
Speaker 2:And then I was using the alcohol to smash the anxiety. And then the next day I'd probably use it to recover from a little bit of the depressed mood that I had going on, never realizing how much the alcohol was contributing to all of that. You know, when you're in there looking out, it just doesn't, you don't get a clear picture.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, the alcohol for me causes so much anxiety, especially like if we're talking in a business sense. If I had to give a presentation to a large group, for example, and I found myself all of a sudden having like these panic attacks and getting jittery before having to give these presentations, which when I was younger was not an issue. I think it just kind of builds up and maybe, you know, we all change as we age. But as soon as I started realizing that it was causing the anxiety.
Speaker 1:And so like, if I did have like a big presentation, I would like cut out all alcohol, like at least a week, maybe ten days beforehand so that I could just be even keel, you know, and get in front of a larger group. But if I didn't, boy, I was in trouble. For the anxiety in your life, like where was the noticeable change when you started, when you made this change?
Speaker 2:Well, the thing that got me started with Julie was an email that she sent and said, Do you want to wake up happy every morning? And at that point in time, when I woke up in the morning, I had so much anxiety of me trembling. And I would have to get out of bed very quickly because lying in bed awake was a horrible place to be. Other than the alcohol, there wasn't really a reason for it. My life has plenty of outside stressors.
Speaker 2:I run three companies and have a lot of other stuff going on. And if you look for them, there's issues every single day. And it's really interesting because right now I'm at a point where I've got a couple big problems going on that are fairly serious and they don't bother me at all. I see them as challenges that I'm going to solve. Whereas with the alcohol, these would have been things that would keep me up at night.
Speaker 2:You know, as soon as the alcohol wore off, I'd be awake in bed thinking about whatever that problem is. And, you know, it's completely different. And it's just amazing to me how much stronger I am and how much easier it is to solve problems and how clear headed I am compared. A problem would just sit there in my brain and I'd ruminate on it, ruminate on it, never really solve it. And now I'll put it out of my mind until the solution comes along.
Speaker 2:And that's usually the way it works now is I think there's a big problem. Something has happened. This is horrible. How are we gonna fix this? And then the thought is gone.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, and the solution will present itself somehow or another in whatever amount of time it takes. And that's when I began to think about that problem again, rather than sitting there and ruminating it all the time. And that was, you know, that anxiety loop. I would, I had behavior that would, you know, I would do things with my cell phone just to cause your brain doesn't think it wants anxiety, for some reason, your body's pushing all those buttons to look at whatever it is that caused you anxiety in the first place. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I couldn't even begin to explain all that, but if sales were down and I was worried about sales online, I'd be checking sales every ten minutes. That kind of stuff is just like, looking back, it's just mind boggling. Why did I do that?
Speaker 1:Isn't it crazy how your complete outlook and the way you handle things can change so fast? So for me, mine's similar to what you're saying there but like I was in the startup tech startup world and I had little kids and let's say something's going on with one of the kids and you know this company over here has got like a month of runway before it goes bankrupt and we have this going on with these customers and like it feels like the sky is falling. But then all of a sudden if I change, which I did and those sorts of level of problems would arise, I'd always be like whatever happens we're gonna figure it out. Like I got this. Can totally handle this.
Speaker 1:But in the other sense, it was just like, oh my God, like everything's going to shit and like the sky is falling, you know, with the same level problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you hit it right on the head with that statement and that you look at problems and know that you can solve them. And that is such a huge difference in life. Rather than looking at a problem and you have this idea that this is gonna be life ending, this financial crisis is going to ruin me. I'm going to be living under a bridge somewhere. When you know that's not the reality.
Speaker 2:I've been doing this all my life. I solve huge problems all the time. I always get through them. The anxiety that was surrounding them just seemed so wasted because you always knew that looking in the rearview mirror, you came up with a solution. Now without the alcohol, I see just what you said.
Speaker 2:I know I'm going to solve the problem. I may not know exactly how I'm gonna do it in that very moment, but I don't stress over it because I know the solution will come.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a 100%. And I mean, you just gotta say, even if we're not even talking in the context of alcohol, everything's gonna be all right is an easy thing that you can say to yourself. And, you know, even when I felt like everything wasn't gonna be all right, look at my history, I've made it to here. You know, like there's always a way in and through everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think, you know, the older you get, you look back at the more, you know, it's it was it just seemed ridiculous to me that I would be sitting up worrying about these things especially when I've got, you know, at my age, some really big problems in the rearview mirror that I solve. The ones that I encounter today probably aren't as big as the ones I've encountered in the past. So for me to be sitting there ruminating over something that is six tenths of my largest problem, and it seems massive in the moment yet I know I'm going to solve it, but you just don't think that way. It's just, you know, you go down this path of all of the possible scenarios that could happen because of this one event.
Speaker 2:And you look at the, it's a stinking thinking and you look at the worst possible outcome and you start there. It's like, this is gonna result in financial ruin. We're gonna be homeless and all the, it's it's crazy, that is, that's the way it works.
Speaker 1:So you've written about ADHD and obviously it's a part of your life and has given you some understanding about some of your history and the way things have unfolded for you. What was that understanding that you kind of came to about yourself?
Speaker 2:Well, later in life, when really understood what was going on up here, when you only have one brain and you're living in it, it's hard, until you start to understand how the rest of the world is, and it's hard to get a really good view of yourself. And I think that that happened probably in my early 40s when I started to realize, I would This is about the time when ADHD was really becoming much more of a benefit than a hindrance to me. And because my mind worked so quick and I could process so many things and there was always so much going on that I kind of expected everybody else to be that way. And when I would throw a bunch of stuff at somebody and they didn't like have 12 answers or they, you know, they, that's not my job. I'm not, you know, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Was like, what what's wrong with you? You know, you should be able to learn to do this in a minute. And that was when I realized that I was different, you know, not just with the diagnosis of ADHD, but I began to realize that my brain worked differently. So that required a bit of patience. So you go from a point in your childhood or early adulthood where you're, I don't know if you look down on, but you're definitely different, you're labeled and all the other stuff that goes along with it.
Speaker 2:And then there's a turning point and it may be pretty early depending on the person where you sort of blossom with ADHD. And then it's the fuel, so to speak. Of course, just having one brain and one life. I didn't realize that I was that much different, but I had ideas all the time, you know, and kind of thought everybody else did and wondered why people were so, I don't know, lazy. Why weren't you solving problems and doing things and starting businesses and doing stuff?
Speaker 2:And took quite a while. Like I said, I was probably 40 before I really began to understand the fact that not everybody's brain worked like mine and that they weren't always so wound up and had so much stuff bouncing around in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, we have so much overlap because I mean, guess you could probably diagnose me or ADD, ADHD, whatever it is. You know, I was when I was young, did medication early, didn't really take, I couldn't, it was just too stimulating for me. And then through my adult life, thought, well, maybe I've outgrown this or maybe I can push it aside and pretend it's not there. But then I started to think, I'm 46 now, so how can I use that as my superpower in a way?
Speaker 1:Because like you're saying these things on the ideas, I have business partners where we're very focused on one product or one initiative, but at the same time in the group chat, I'm still like, okay, hear me out. I got an idea. It's totally unrelated. It's like, focus, please. You know, even if it is a good idea.
Speaker 1:So I think you could probably understand that. But, you know, you really dug into the brain science behind all this, ADHD, stress, dopamine, alcohol. What did you learn that helped everything finally kind of make sense to you?
Speaker 2:I think I'm still learning. I don't know that it all makes perfect sense to me even today. I just try to work around what I've got and do the best of what I have. And the science is a little interesting. What I find the most interesting now is dealing with younger people who have this.
Speaker 2:I taught Taekwondo for quite a while to younger kids, and you would have parents drop the kids off and make excuses and apologize for the, I'm so sorry about Johnny today. His dad forgot to give him his meds. That was my favorite. They're like, Yeah, think Johnny's fine. I think his parents have got the issue and watching those kids blossom.
Speaker 2:I was at this school for quite a while and watching some of these children go from being hyperactive and not being able to keep their attention to becoming not just normal, but excelling at what they do. And that's something else that you can get with ADHD is that as much as it creates a focus problem at some point in time and throughout your life, it also can create hyper focus when you get really into something. You know, you can go down that rabbit hole and get really interested in a problem. And, you know, that's when you come up with the best solution.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think it also gives you the ability to be, I don't know if I empathetic or sympathetic. I don't know which word I want to use there. But you know, you see in your case with the kids, because I think about this all the time because I have pretty hyperactive kids, but then you almost got to be more concerned about the kids that follow every single rule and just know that the kids that are like breaking all the rules and running around and maybe driving you nuts are, first of all, that's usually all going to fall in line when it's supposed to And they'll kind of be able to know when, how to be, when to be. But I think also like that does give you the ability to be understanding to other people that are similar to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, without a doubt. Definitely I don't know if sympathy is the right word but understanding is definitely in there.
Speaker 1:Understanding, yeah. The word wasn't coming to me but yeah, definitely. But I just imagine a bunch of kids running around and you probably being like, I get it.
Speaker 2:You know, for me, it was, you know, when you see the parent parental interaction and how upset their parents would be with them, you just want to whisper in the kid's ears like, it's going to be okay. You know, just stick it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. A 100%. So I actually wanna first of all, before we get before I forget, where's your backdrop? Looks like you're not in The United States.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm not. I'm in Costa Rica right now in a place called Playa Hermosa. Yep. About the Middle Pacific Coast, halfway between Nicaragua and Panama.
Speaker 1:Very cool. How long have you been there?
Speaker 2:I finished this home in December, but I used to live a couple doors down. I've been coming to Costa Rica for probably thirty years and have been doing business here for about ten.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, I I actually more overlap. I used to live in San Juan De Sur in Nicaragua, and I did business in Costa Rica, and this was about fifteen years ago. So I've been kind of bouncing back every now and then. I have some friends in Nicaragua, but I could tell that you're probably somewhere close.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll ask you what everybody asks me when I find out I live in a place like this. Do you surf?
Speaker 1:Not very well.
Speaker 2:Me neither.
Speaker 1:But so are you a destination guy you like to travel around or is this a love affair with Costa Rica?
Speaker 2:You know, I love Costa Rica and I spend a lot of time here. I live in several different places and move around. I used to travel a great deal. And I quit drinking, as a matter of fact, the day I quit drinking, was supposed to fly to Buenos Aires for a vacation. And I canceled that ticket and went back to Texas to stay with my wife.
Speaker 2:I just wasn't sure exactly what I was in for. I didn't think going on a trip by myself was a good idea. And I'd lost a desire to travel after I'd quit drinking. And it was this mindset. This is crazy, but it was, why would I go on vacation?
Speaker 2:What am I gonna do? I can't go to a bar. Mean, was literally running through You my have a lot of wild and stupid thoughts when you're I remember the day I quit, I'm cleaning up the apartment before I leave New York. And as I put the dishes away, I'm like, I can't quit drinking. Look at all these beautiful beer glasses I've bought all over the world and brought back here.
Speaker 2:You mean, you just have these stupid thoughts going through your head, but I didn't wanna travel for a long time. And on my one year anniversary of sobriety, I bought that ticket to Buenos Aires and went there and had a wonderful time and just got back from Czech Republic a week or two ago, and have just begun traveling again, leaving the comfort of my own home. I do move around a lot, but I just live in different places. So it's different than going to a strange place and staying in a place you don't, an apartment or a hotel you don't know and wandering around. But it's just like the rest of my life now.
Speaker 2:I enjoy all of it much more than I ever did. Even the evenings, I have no, the alcohol is a non issue anymore. So, traveling
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask you because I was kind of segueing into that because I do, I know from my own personal experience, especially when you're in a Latin American country where alcohol is not only in every function, but it's super cheap and accessible anywhere. You know, did how do you find did you find new joy in being able to travel and being amidst that environment, but not necessarily feeling like you have to deny it. You can be there in the moment, enjoy it, but you're just enjoying different things in a different way.
Speaker 2:You know, I certainly enjoy everything a lot more now. I've tried getting into the social side, you know, the late night things and going to bars and such, and I can't take it. I opened a bar here in town that I've since sold. It used to be one of my favorite places to go. And now I went there just the other day to meet a couple of friends and you notice so much more.
Speaker 2:I guess my senses are that much lower. Everything seems so loud. It smells bad. Even having a conversation in a place like that, because it's loud, it's difficult. Don't have an allure to me anymore at all.
Speaker 2:Now, do like, especially Latin America and South America, I like walking the streets at night. The things really come to life at night and it's not all alcohol, it's not all people drinking, but there's more happening. People go out to the streets to celebrate. I have a wonderful video I took in Buenos Aires. I was just walking around aimlessly and I hear this band blaring from half a mile away and I walked towards the music and I expect to find this outdoor concert.
Speaker 2:And when I finally find this, there are like 20 people playing drums in the street and people dancing out there and dogs running around. It's an incredible video. The whole thing just caught me completely off guard. No alcohol to be found anywhere. There wasn't anybody drinking out there at all.
Speaker 2:It was a real party in the street, something you would never find in The US. And it was just, that kind of stuff is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You have this perceived idea that like, you know, when you are drinking that everybody else that's actually having a good time is also doing that. And then all of a sudden you realize that that perception was just a projection that you really wanted to see to almost be like, yeah, they're all just like me, you know? And so that's such a cool thing. And the only, the other reason I asked you is because, you know, it's been about six years ago I started making drastic changes.
Speaker 1:And this past year we went and lived in Spain and I'm human. Like it definitely was more challenging to be in certain situations out of your element being around that. So I think it's really awesome to hear that that isn't so much of a challenge. It's just, it's now this is who you are and you're doing the things that make you happy, which the bar it sounds like was more about the alcohol. It wasn't about an actual thing that you were doing that you were enjoying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. I, you know, even going out to eat, I don't I've made some other changes after sobriety and and working on my health and I've shortened the amount of time that I I eat during each day. But even before I did that, I found that I didn't like to go out to eat anymore. And when I did go out to eat, I always wanted to sit at the bar and I convinced myself that I did that so I would have somebody to talk to, the bartender. I realized now it's just so I was closer to the alcohol and I would never have an empty glass.
Speaker 2:And I also realized that I wasn't really going out to eat. I was going out to drink. So I don't go out nearly as much, very, very infrequently. As a matter of fact, when I was in Europe this last trip, I probably went out to eat twice in two weeks. You know, just stayed at home and ate that just changes in habit, but I'm happy with what I'm doing and that's what really matters.
Speaker 2:You gotta find find the things that that work for you. You know, what is it what is it that truly makes you happy? And I guess to start that journey, you need to figure out what happiness is and then work from there.
Speaker 1:Isn't that what it's all about? I love that. So I'm gonna hit you with three rapid fire questions before we end. And these don't have to be totally related to alcohol, but you're a smart guy, you have great history, great outlook. So I'm gonna hit you with these.
Speaker 1:You ready?
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:All right. A book or idea that rocked your perspective lately?
Speaker 2:Lately. Two people have come into my view lately that I have a lot of respect for, and I found them both very interesting. Jim Carrey and John Mayer. I had no idea what journey either one of them had been on. And John Mayer said something the other day that floored me.
Speaker 2:And he's not one to talk about not drinking a lot, but he said he did it just like this. He says, so first off, was at Drake's thirtieth birthday party and got ripped and had a five day hangover. And that's when he decided to quit. And he said, he asked himself, you wanna be, how much of you do you wanna be? And he's talking to himself.
Speaker 2:He says, if you wanna be 60% of John Mayer, that's fine. Take 40% and party, make that decision. And he sat there and goes, You know, I wanna be 100%. And he quit drinking. And he said, After he quit drinking, I wish I had heard this video a long time ago, but he said that when you're drinking, you have this up and down, you know, not necessarily depression, but you have these highs and lows.
Speaker 2:And when you stop drinking, this becomes much shallower and it's down a little bit. But in time, you bring that whole mood up so that you're not at the highs. Nobody wants to be euphoric every minute of every day. It just takes time to bring that level back up. And I found that very insightful.
Speaker 2:And for that reason, I've been listening to John Mayer and Jim Carrey's got some incredible that guy, I had no idea until just recently. But those two, you know, there've been a lot of people who've me in the past, and these are guys that, I've just found a lot of interest in just just like just recently.
Speaker 1:Love it. I've seen some great stuff too and I love that whole lifting the entire baseline up. So, alright. One daily habit you'd never give up.
Speaker 2:Well, at the moment, I would have to say that's cold plunge. Meditation, there's so many. I don't know. And that's what my next book is about. And it's a daily stack, a morning stack that I've created.
Speaker 2:Mine's big. I've got a list so long I have to write it down. It's on laminated and I cross it out with a dry erase marker and then start over every day. But to me, probably the three most important parts of my ritual are getting outside first thing in the morning when I wake up, cold plunge, and meditation.
Speaker 1:I'm a big fan of since my twenties, I've been drawn to cold water. Everybody listening to the podcast that's heard it once or more is probably like, yeah, yeah, we we've heard that, Mike. But yeah, cold water is awesome especially for like dopamine regulation and reset. All right. What does living well mean to you these days?
Speaker 2:At the moment, it's a lot more focused on myself And I'm living my best life right now, but at the same time, I really think there's more room for improvement. And I'm always looking for something else to add to that or a way to make things even more enjoyable without taking up so much of my time. I'm very health focused at point in my life. And it's a balancing act. I'm trying to take care of myself and maintain my relationships with everybody else.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I've found even mostly recently in the last few months, but definitely after I quit drinking is I've become a little more solitary. I'm out here at this house by myself on the mountain with nothing but monkeys and such, and sometimes I go days without seeing people. So I make an effort to go visit with friends once in a while.
Speaker 1:I like that. I like that. So, right now, don't you share a little bit about like what projects are you really excited about that's got you going? Like what's next? You've had all this big success.
Speaker 1:Obviously, there's something that's got you really excited.
Speaker 2:You know, it's a little bit of old and a little bit of new. I have a company I've had for twenty eight years called Discount Electronics that I enjoy a lot. We sell used computer equipment and it has a ton of benefits and then it keeps stuff out of the landfill. It provides computers to people who couldn't normally afford a computer and just created some really great jobs. And I've worked with the same group of people for a long time.
Speaker 2:And although that company's twenty eight years old, I'm always excited to work there. And I've wanted to not be the CEO for a long time. I've even stepped down once and had to come back. And I'm in a moment now where I think I have someone that I'm hoping can run that company. And that's exciting.
Speaker 2:And I love working at that place every single day. And then, you know, I've got new challenges too. The hotels are still relatively new. I've had these three or four years and those still have new and inviting challenges, some regulatory stuff. I learned being in a different country, it's always interesting and challenging to learn the ways of business and banking and all the other stuff.
Speaker 2:And this next book is going to be amazing. And venture I've always had that was successful, I've somehow ended up with an incredible team. And that's all, you know, the people I work with at Discount Electronics, so many of them have been there a decade. There are a few that have been there twenty years. And that's what makes something really work.
Speaker 2:And this book, I've got a few people from the last book working together with me and we've added to it. And the synergy there is, it's just awesome. The energy we have, we meet every Monday and work through how everything is coming together and all aspects of this book. It's exciting and fun and it's new. It's exciting because it's new to me.
Speaker 2:This is only my second book, so it's still And that industry is changing a lot. The way books written and everything else about them has changed. So that's a lot of fun. I've got so, my life is so full. It's just where do I wanna put my time?
Speaker 2:And now that I have this extra time at the end of the day that I didn't have before, I spend twenty minutes of that or so thinking through all of the things that I wanna get done and deciding, I go back to Doctor. Covey, The important, the urgent, trying to keep the unimportant urgent stuff out of there altogether and trying to prevent the important stuff from becoming urgent. And I make a list according to that, am I going to do tomorrow? What are the important things that I'm going to take on? It's not always the task that I'd like to do right off the shoot, but I play a bit of a game with myself.
Speaker 2:I'll work for a while and then I've got a little timer, runs twenty five minutes. When I sit down, I've got, This is what I'm gonna do with this twenty five minutes on the computer. It beeps, I get up and I'll go do some stretching or depending on whether it's an A day or B day, I'll go for a run. And just organizing my day is sometimes a challenge and fun. And when you do it right, and you probably know this as well, that when you pull it off at the end of the day and you get, maybe you don't get every single thing that you want to, when you really have a successful day, you feel amazing.
Speaker 2:It's like, I took care of myself. I took care of business. I got all the things done that were important. That leaves you with a very fulfilling being. There's nothing better than that to me.
Speaker 2:And it goes the opposite way. If I let my day get away from me, which I did just last week, and you lose the whole day and you sit there in misery, how did I let that happen? I let the outside circumstances take my day from me and you learn from it wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd like to have more of those days that you said the first one. Sometimes I feel like that doesn't happen as often as I'd like, but you get up and you try again. So what's the name of the book and when does it come out?
Speaker 2:You know, the the title is still in the works but it's going to be something like My Morning Stack and it will be out this year. It's going to be a very short book if I do a good job. I don't remember who said that, but they said, Forgive me for making this letter so long, I didn't have time to But make it that's where a lot of this is going in the book is to cut out the fluff. It's going to be almost a reference guide, pocket sized, with a starter stack, five things that I guarantee are gonna make anybody who reads that book happier if they follow instructions. Then hopefully enough of an instruction set to let you build on it.
Speaker 2:Because even today, my stack changes all the time. Sometimes it changes because of where I am, but sometimes I find I move the order of things around a little bit or tweak one thing, spend more time doing something else. And, you know, that's what that whole book is gonna be about is creating a foundation for your day and as little as sixty minutes.
Speaker 1:I'm a big believer in setting the The morning is your setup for the day. And if you like, for me, if I just jump right into it without setting that foundation, there's a marked difference between how my day will go without giving it some intention. So I'm looking forward to that coming out. I'll definitely grab a coffee. Rick, well, this has been incredible.
Speaker 1:I just want to thank you so much for number one, completely open and honest about your past and for sharing all the knowledge that you know.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 1:This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number one alcohol moderation platform, having helped hundreds of thousands of people cut out more than 13,000,000 drinks since 2020. And in fact, an independent study showed that Sunnyside reduced alcohol consumption by an average of 30% in ninety days. And as one of our members shared, Sunnyside helps me stay mindful of my drinking habits. It's not super restrictive. So if I'm craving a glass of wine with dinner, I just track it and I move on with my week.
Speaker 1:If you could benefit from drinking a bit less and being more mindful of when and how much you drink, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free fifteen day trial. You'll get access to everything that we offer, including tracking and planning tools, coaching from our experts, a vibrant community of people just like you, and the motivation and advice to stay on track with your health goals, all with no pressure to quit. That's sunnyside.co.
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