The Goodness Game: One Small Act at a Time w/ Bryan Driscoll
Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, the podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and of course, your own mindful drinking journey.
Speaker 2:Today's episode is a little different, but it hits right at
Speaker 3:the heart of what this show is all about. Small steps, no pressure, and building a life you actually feel good in. I'm talking with Brian Driscoll, author of The Goodness Game. At 18, Brian was on the verge of being homeless until a stranger pulled over and offered him food and shelter. He's created a movement around a simple framework to help people find their own way to give, to connect, and to feel better doing it.
Speaker 3:This lines up with so much of what we believe here. You don't need to make some big dramatic change to reset your life. Let's get into it. Alright, Brian. Thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Hey. Thanks for having me, man.
Speaker 3:It's gonna be a great conversation. It's gonna be a break from our usual, which is gonna be fun, but it is along the same lines as we were talking before I hit record of making small consistent shifts in how we approach things can make a huge difference, actually even life changing difference. But let's go back to some life changing periods of your life. So you were 18 years old. You had no money.
Speaker 3:You were heading to sleep at a bus station. Can you take us back to that moment and what happened next?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sure thing. So do you want you want me to tell you how I got in that situation?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Give us the full story.
Speaker 2:Alright. So I'm, like, 18 years old. It's back in '98. And I got pissed at my parents. So so me, I just do whatever I want, like, not thinking of consequence.
Speaker 2:I'm like, you know what? I'm out of here. I'm going to the bus station. In the Greyhound, I'm taking the next bus leaving. So I'm from Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2:Next bus was going to Orlando. So I'm like, okay. Hop on the bus. Got a duffel bag. Got some stuff.
Speaker 2:Maybe a couple hundred bucks in my pocket. And I'm going down, and on a Greyhound, you don't go straight. You're going from, like, city to city, taking transfers. You're meeting like, it's a crazy characters on the Greyhound at least back then. So I'm going down there.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what I'm doing. Like, there's no cell phones, no Uber. I get that on the last stretch, and, there's a couple I'm talking to, and they're like, hey. What are you doing? I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna get a hotel when I get off of here. I'm I'm gonna find some figure something out. And it's like 11:00 at night. And they're like, well, you know what? If you want, you can come back to our place real quick, and we can call around and see if we can find something.
Speaker 2:So we did. And, I get back to their place. They got a their table. They got, like, a yellow rotary phone and the yellow pages. We're calling around, and we found a day's in.
Speaker 2:It was $25 a night. Like, it's perfect. So I booked a booked a hotel, like, stayed there. I was there, like, couple days, and I started running out of money. So I'm thinking, okay.
Speaker 2:What am I gonna do to make money? And, like, I'm in my head, I'm moved to Florida. Like, I'm not going back to Pittsburgh. So I go to one of the grocery stores. I'm like, I asked for an application.
Speaker 2:Like, hey. I wanna get a job. Like, how do I apply? They give me the application, and I realized, like, you can't apply for a job without an address and a phone number. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So how old are you? You I'm 40 Okay. So we're about the same age. So you grew up in the same era.
Speaker 2:Like, you remember '98. Like, that's when Google was coming out.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? So so I can't get a job. So I'm like, okay. What am I gonna do? I'm running out of cash.
Speaker 2:So I went. They have these places called job labor pools where you just go show up at the beginning of the day. Guy pulls up in a truck. He needs laborers. He's like, I'll take you.
Speaker 2:I'll take you. I'll take you. And they pay you at the end of the day. So I did that, making, like, $25 a day. So it was a wash.
Speaker 2:And I was, carrying scaffolding at at they were building an amusement park. And, looking back on it, I'm pretty sure it was the animal kingdom. We're building, like, this fake tree. So that that was kinda cool. But I ended up running out of money there too.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I'm making 25 in my room's at. So my idea was I'm gonna walk to the Greyhound station. I saw the Greyhound station's open twenty four hours a day. There's a bunch of people in there. They don't know who's leaving, like, or who's waiting.
Speaker 2:I was gonna crash there for the night to, like, re up so I could, like, right side myself because I was running out of cash. So I'm walking to the Greyhound station in a it was like in a b or c class neighborhood, like, not not like a super nice neighborhood. And this lady pulls up beside me in a black geo tracker, and she looks over. She's like, hey. It doesn't look like you belong here.
Speaker 2:And we started talking. I don't remember exactly what we said, but I find myself in the back of her car. She took me back to her house and, like, put me up for a couple days. It's like, who does that? Number one.
Speaker 2:Number two, like, that that point in my life, it's like, that's like if she didn't do that, who knows? Like, that's how homelessness starts and all that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? So it's like, I had an angel looking out for me. I didn't realize it at the time.
Speaker 2:I didn't think much of it. But looking back, I'm like, holy crap. You know? So, yeah, that that's kind of where it all started. You know?
Speaker 3:What did that moment of kindness do for you? What did that change you? Because I think it did.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It did. So it didn't change me then. Because I was just in, like, reactive mode. You know what mean?
Speaker 2:I'm like, I'm just trying to survive.
Speaker 3:Well, also, you're what? 18, 16?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm, like, eighteen eighteen years old. Yeah. And I'm still I'm a knucklehead. Like, I always got in trouble.
Speaker 2:Like, it's just like how I think. It's like I'm just thinking of what's next. So, like, at that point, I'm like, you know what? That's really cool. Thanks.
Speaker 2:She spotted me a couple hundred bucks, got me a job, and all that kind of stuff. I ended up coming back to Pittsburgh, and then I started getting a lot of drinking and everything. Like I was telling you before, I started getting a lot of trouble, like, 18 to probably, like, I don't know, 24 or something. But I always remembered that this lady gave me a couple hundred dollars, and deal was I was supposed to pay her back. So I started to make money, and by that time, I don't have her contact info.
Speaker 2:So I'm like, okay. I owe this lady $300. I still owe her. I still don't can't don't know how to reach her. Like, I don't have her info.
Speaker 2:So I saw the movie pay it forward. I'm like, you know what? That's what I'm gonna do instead. I can't pay her back, so I'm gonna pay her kindness forward, and that's one way that I dealt more it was more initially helping me with the guilt. It's like, I owe her back.
Speaker 2:I gotta, like I don't like being in debt. You know I mean? Like, I gotta do something. So I I figured I'm gonna start doing that, And then it just transpired into like, it changed my life a lot. She doesn't even know it.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. Like, she just thinks I picked up some kid on the street. He ripped me off for $300, and then that's that, which really made, like, a big change in my life.
Speaker 3:Yeah. What do you think it is? Because some people feel the need to help, and you probably think about this a lot. Some people feel the need to help just to help. So that woman that probably helped you had no interest in getting anything in return.
Speaker 3:Some people give to because it makes them feel good and sometimes they give. Unfortunately, even if it goes to the right place, do it because it makes them feel good and they want the praise. What do you think it is in people that just are they born that way, or or do people that wanna help other people see something differently at some point in their lives to be able to pay it forward in that way?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think it's I think truly everyone wants to make I'd say 99% of population wants to make a difference and wants to help people. I think humans are intentionally like, they're good people. Right? But I think where it gets held up is it's like, okay.
Speaker 2:What do you do? It's like everyone thinks you gotta do, like, something huge to make a difference. I gotta go start a nonprofit stuff like that, or they start doing the wrong things. So, like, for me, I'm not the guy that, like, if somebody needs a grass cut, they can't do it. I mean, I can do it, but I don't like doing that stuff.
Speaker 2:But there are other things I really like doing to help people make a difference. It makes me like, I feel good after the fact, not like bragging or anything, but it's like, it actually gives me energy too. So I think some of the people that help a lot have found, it's like what they're built for, and they do that. And then other people are like, I don't even know what to do just because it's like it's like, okay. Go start a business, for example.
Speaker 2:It's like, okay. That's overwhelming to a lot of people. And then some people can be like, you know what? Here, I can and they can break it into small things.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No. I'm I love that. I mean, it's something that I didn't necessarily feel like was ingrained and natural to me. As I became an adult, I started thinking more and reading more, of course, with that advice who would say, hey.
Speaker 3:This really makes a difference. So, like, I started several years ago just in the morning. I'd do, like, a Venmo to a friend and send $5 and say, one that I haven't talked to in a while and say, have coffee on me. And even if they said thanks, I just made sure or point not to say anything because I wanted to give without any sort of, like, return. And so in talking to you, we're gonna get into why this is so important, but why did you decide that, like, paying these experiences forward or creating them yourself was your mission was so important?
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, that fur before I answer that, what made you think to do the $5 Venmo thing? That's really cool.
Speaker 3:A friend of mine said, just give something to somebody and don't either don't tell them who it is or, don't, like, respond if they're, like, thanks or anything. And so I just thought, that's a super easy one. All my people that I haven't even talked to are still, like, automatically added to my Venmo contacts. So, I would actually pick people that I haven't talked to in years and I've even heard, like, you know, a year or two later that they've said, you know what? That really, like, made my day, and it's a as you know, it's a downline effect.
Speaker 3:So for me, it's like, I'm hoping it doesn't stop at that one person. I'm hoping that it, like, they go off and do the same and downline to other people and other people because small things do can have a ripple effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you know what? That so to answer your question, like, along those lines, for example, like, in your coffee example, I'm curious by nature. Like, I I'm like, I wanna see what happens. You know I mean?
Speaker 2:I wanna see, like, what goes on. So it's like, I'm curious. Okay. If, say, I gave someone $5 through Venmo, and I and I don't let them know who it is, in my head, I'm visualized. I'm like, I wonder what happened.
Speaker 2:Like, I wondered, did they like, did it make them smile? And then did it change their mood? Like, hey. You never know. That person could be leaving a funeral home, like, a shitty day.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? And then something like that happens, and then they let the guy in front of them in traffic that's bumper to bumper. And then he relieves his anxiety because and it's like a whole bunch of small trickle effects. I'm like, I think that's how the world works. I think everything's kinda tied together.
Speaker 2:So it's like, can you put something positive out there like a domino and have it just, like, knock other ones down in a positive way?
Speaker 3:Totally. I mean, if we wanted to relate it to the subject of this podcast, you know, like, if you were to give a message to somebody that you know just out of the blue of support or just, like, praise for how great of a person they are, but in that moment, they might have been struggling or even thinking about breaking their commitment, and it fed them in such a positive way that all of a sudden you change the trajectory for them or even it could do the other effect where, you know, if you feed others, good energy, it can't help put the flow back to you and might have the same effect as well.
Speaker 2:Right. That's what's weird too. It's like you go out trying to help other people. You're you feel good at the end of the day. It's like it's a byproduct.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So in your story, you posted something on a Craigslist ad offering to help strangers. Tell us about that and what inspired you to do that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So that kinda goes along the lines of, like, what we're talking about now. So like I said, I'm curious. So I'm like, everyone's like, small things make a big difference. I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, prove it. Like like, how do you know that? People say everyone says that. It's like, how do you how do you believe that? And I'm skeptical.
Speaker 2:You know? So I was sitting in sitting in bed one night. I'm like, laying in bed. My brain's spinning. And I'm like, I wonder if I posted something saying I'm gonna come to you.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna do something and come help you out. I only want you to pay it forward. I wonder what would happen. Like, if if it would, like, if people would actually pay it forward. So I went on to Craigslist, picked a random city, happened to be Chicago.
Speaker 2:Like, I literally took my mouse and, like, scrolled it around. Chicago is the city, so I posted this post op saying, hey. I'll come to your city, help you out. I don't want anything returned. I just want you to pay it forward, and then I went to bed.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I just wanna see, like, what happens. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 3:Like an moment that you're just like, I'm they just oh, out of nowhere came to you and you're and you acted on it?
Speaker 2:It was. Yeah. And that's yeah. And and you know what? Sometimes I get a wacky ideas.
Speaker 2:Some of them are crazy. You know what I mean? But it's like Sure. And I I just have I act almost immediately. Like, for example, this one.
Speaker 2:I didn't think it out. I'm just I'm just gonna post it on Craigslist, and then we'll see if people respond, and then I'm gonna decide what I do next. It's not like, hey. I'm gonna do this and then this and then this, but it was one of those moments. It's like, hey.
Speaker 2:You know what? That's a good idea. Let me try it. If I would've if I would've went to bed, I would've woke up in the morning and thought it was stupid. Like, I I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So so you
Speaker 3:did this thing. What happened?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I did it. So I posted it on. And in the morning, I got I there's a whole bunch of emails in my inbox. Remember, was using Hotmail back at back at Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. And I open it up, and I was I was starting to read them, and then there's a lot of people like, hey. You know what? If this is legit, this is really cool, or, hey. You just made my day.
Speaker 2:There were some weird ones in there too, but then there were a couple of people that, like, needed needed something. And I thought it was gonna be, like, a whole bunch of people. Hey. I can't pay my rent or stuff like that looking for money. Most of the people weren't.
Speaker 2:They just needed things. Like, one dude, his name was Mike. He just needed help. He he he bought a truck, and he needed a ride to go get it. It was, like, forty five minutes away.
Speaker 2:I'm like, dude, that's, like, such a simple thing, and this was before Uber. Like, you couldn't just call a call a car then.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. One lady, she got a swing set for her kid off of Craigslist for free. She just needed help taking it down and, like, getting it ready to move. One dude was gutting a bathroom for someone else, and he he's like, hey. If you're if you want, you can help me, like, take some of the debris out for a couple hours.
Speaker 2:One dude needed a car battery. He's the only one that needed money, like, something that cost money. So for his work truck. And then one guy worked at a homeless shelter. He's like, hey.
Speaker 2:If you're coming up, if got any clothes and stuff like that, bring them with you. So I thought about it. I'm like, you know what? This is I can do this. Like, it didn't cost me much money.
Speaker 2:Hopped in my car, drove to Chicago. It's like, I don't know, ten hours or something. I did it Friday to Sunday, like, a weekend trip. Didn't tell anyone I was going, you know, like my parents or anything like that. And I went up and did these things, and I'm like, this is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:You know?
Speaker 3:It's definitely not a normal thing. And in the greatest of ways, you know, I say that in the greatest of ways, but what you know, was there something missing that you felt? Was there something you felt like you had to get back? Like, what was driving this this, like, you know, these actions? So it comes from somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I don't I don't know. I think that that lady initially doing something for me and seeing a difference it made in my life. And then also, I used to like I said, I used to get a lot of trouble and stuff. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So I I had a lot of guilt I'm dealing with. I'm like, you know what? Okay. Maybe we can maybe we can write the scales here. You know?
Speaker 2:Initially, like, when I started doing things, it's like, it it was probably something like that too. It's like, hey. You know what? I did some bad stuff that maybe maybe I can offset the karma. You know?
Speaker 3:Totally. And and to that point of, you getting in trouble early on, you've been asked the question of, if you could go back, what was one thing you would change? What a chance of that one while we're at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The the one thing I I always tell people is don't drink. I would've told my younger self, don't drink. I gotten so much. It's like I I think about it too.
Speaker 2:I I tell my wife and everyone about this now too. They're like I'm like, nothing good happens after ten, number one. And I'm sitting there thinking, everything in my life, I go out drinking. It's like, well, I never came back to be like, boy, that was a really good thing that I did that. I really accomplished something good.
Speaker 2:It was always like bad stuff. So I look back. I'm like, it kinda it caused me years of pain. You know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And it can. Definitely when misused and, you know, like, I'm not obviously against alcohol. I'm against, like, using it in a way that doesn't serve us. And when we do it in that way, it we're literally putting a lie low vibration substance into our body.
Speaker 3:And if we do too much of that, then the then low vibration's gonna come from us as well. And and I think that that's really relatable to what we're talking about here. So you did this thing. At what point did you realize that you could grow this beyond just, like, a one time gesture trip and Craigslist ad to Chicago?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so what I did was I'm like, I I took a I had an old camcorder, and I took it with me on a trip, but I was just like my brother did YouTube stuff. And we used to go to the flea markets, and he would, like, document the whole trip. Yeah. I'm like, I'm gonna do the same thing here.
Speaker 2:I didn't know what I was gonna do with it, but I, like, took pictures and stuff, recorded a little bit. When I got back home, I made a, YouTube video. The Windows Movie Maker. It's nothing like, I have it on our my website. It's, like, super crappy.
Speaker 2:But it's, like, nine minutes long pixelated and everything. Those are the best ones, though, man.
Speaker 3:Right. We're foundation. You get to look back and see how much has changed.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it's like you you people wouldn't even watch a nine minute video these days. You know, it's gotta be like ninety seconds max. You know? But I so I put on I put them on YouTube, and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2:First, I felt like I proved the mission anyways. It's like, okay. I helped some people out, and the guy I helped pick up the truck actually came the next day and helped me move the lady swing set. So I'm like, okay. That proved it right there in a small scale that that that to all of of cause and cause and effect.
Speaker 2:You know? But I put this video up on YouTube, and then then people started like, hey. You know what? That made me feel real good, or, hey. I shared this with my family or, hey.
Speaker 2:I really needed to see that. So I'd so that's also giving me more KPIs on, okay. This is proof. And then the media hit me up, and that's when it got real. Because they're like, hey.
Speaker 2:We wanna do a story on you on what what you did. And I I told them the conditional ones. I'm like, you gotta do it anonymous. I don't wanna this isn't about me. And a couple of them said, hey.
Speaker 2:We can't do that. We need a person. I'm like, well, that's that's fine. But the reason I wanted to be anonymous isn't because it's like like a like a high and mighty type of thing or any the reason I didn't wanna have a face behind it was because I was young and I was single and I didn't want people saying it's like, well, you can do that because. I wanted people to be able to see in theirs.
Speaker 2:It's like, they can relate to it. If there's not a person behind it, then there's no reason. There's no excuse. You know what I mean? It's like, because then they can relate because, oh, you're single or it's because you're whatever.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Or you have a car. That's why you can do it or this or that. So so one lady hit me up. Her name was Gabriel from the Wendy's Citizen, and she's like, same thing, and I'm like, hey.
Speaker 2:It's gotta be anonymous. I don't wanna be involved. She said, let me go check. She said, if we can prove like, get a hold of the people you say you connected with and, like, show it's legit. I'll do the story.
Speaker 2:And she did, and it went viral. Like, it was in the front page of the post gazette two days in a row in Pittsburgh without a name on it, which was kinda cool because no one knew like, I I didn't tell anybody. You know? But but I was sitting there thinking then, and I'm like, okay. That just proved to me that you can do one thing, and it does have a cause and effect at a mass scale.
Speaker 2:Like, like and it goes out because if you help someone, you buy your friend coffee, you might find out that they did something nice to someone else. What did they do three years later? Like, did that have an effect on them or plant a seed in their head three years down the road? Like, you it's hard to prove that kind of stuff. You know?
Speaker 2:So this made me think about it. I'm like, okay. That proves it in my head. I'm like, okay. Now I got the concrete evidence I need to know this works.
Speaker 3:I bet you were feeling pretty good at that point. Like, oh my gosh. Like, I'm onto something that I feel like I can attach my mission to. Is that how you were feeling at that point?
Speaker 2:Kind of. I was so I was driving home from Chicago. This was before the media stuff, and I'm like, you know what? This is my part I feel this was what I'm built to do. You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. But then I also had thoughts too. I'm like, am I going crazy? You know what mean? Because I I have that battle in my head.
Speaker 2:It's like because, we got some mental illness in my family and stuff, and I'm like, am I going freaking nuts here? You know? Like, you got grandiose thoughts, things like that. So I always battle with that too. It's like, is this real, or are you just, like, thinking crazy?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? But I felt really I'm like, you know what? This is kinda what I'm built for. I I see the picture of how you can make a difference, and I think it's a positive thing that the world needs. You know?
Speaker 3:I I do know. I mean, I'm not at all trying to come across like anything that I'm any more special than anybody else, but one of the things that I remember early when I started writing my book long before the podcast and everything like that, I'm just like, you know, I don't know how this book's gonna go but if it only gets to one person and makes a difference and like, they don't have to struggle for the amount of time and the amount of struggle that I went through, then it would be all the more worth it but then I also thought, you know, what if they're a dad like I am? And then I changed it for them. That's gonna change it for their son or daughter and and their daughter's daughter or son. You know?
Speaker 3:And so then I thought, yeah, even if it reaches one person, it matters. So, you know, in listening to you before we get into, like, some of the things that you're doing and how it works, I wanna I wanna go to the other side sort of the devil's advocate because there is a lot of us that maybe resist the urge to help people because they either feel like they'll get taken advantage or they're, like, kinda stupid or whatever. Like, example would be somebody on the corner asking for money. You might originally think, I'm gonna my my heart says I wanna give them money, and then your brain steps in and says, no. They'll probably use it for this or there's programs for that.
Speaker 3:I what do you say to to people that maybe feel like they wanna help but then resist it for whatever reason there is?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would say you gotta you gotta have your head right. So, like, say the guy on the side of the road. It's funny you bring that up because my dad told me along I said the same thing to my dad. I'm like, hey.
Speaker 2:Aren't you worried they're gonna go buy drugs and alcohol? I'm like, whatever. And he and he told me, he said that if you got cash in your pocket and there's someone on the side of the road, they are worse off than you. So he says 19 out of 20 might do something, but there's one person that might not. He said that it's not our job to judge them because if they're on the side of the road, you're better off than them.
Speaker 2:So your job is to help them. You know what I mean? Yeah. And and knowing that, it's like, okay. It's basically like, I'm gonna give to you.
Speaker 2:I don't expect you to it's like no no strings attached. It's like, I'm gonna give this to you. You do what you want with it. Or if I wanna have a little bit of control over it, I'll go buy you food or something. But it's like, I'm doing this to you.
Speaker 2:There's no string. It's not like I'm doing this to you and you gotta get clean. I'm doing this to you and you gotta do whatever. It's like, I'm just helping you out because you're here. You know?
Speaker 2:And that that's kinda like it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No. I mean, I think there's a great point there that I had to let go because don't have an expectation of what could happen when you do it because I know, like, if you don't get the thank you that you were looking for, they seem ungrateful. That doesn't mean that you didn't still do that act of kindness, and it didn't matter. So I think I think, first of all, you got really great advice from your dad.
Speaker 3:And and another point I'll elaborate on here is that when when I would resist that urge, I don't remember where I read it. It said if you had the first instinct to help somebody and then you start rationalizing, your first instinct is the right instinct and everything else is just, you know, noise or pre or conditioning, and you should always trust your instincts. And so I don't always feel the need to help somebody whenever I see them, but whenever that instinct does kick in and then I try to rationalize, I go back to my instinct and just do it anyways.
Speaker 2:That's true too. Yeah. Because you got it's almost like you get the instinct. You have to act. Because I'll do the same thing.
Speaker 2:It's like, I'll talk myself out of things. It's like, like, say, even with that Craigslist thing, it's like, if I sit and think about it for a while, you're you're gonna talk yourself out of whatever it is a lot of the times. It's like, your gut's telling you.
Speaker 3:Totally. So you move forward. You have this thing called the goodness game. What exactly is the goodness game, and how does somebody play it in their everyday life?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sure. So the goodness game, it's it's a book, but it's basically a foundation. So I've been I've had in my head this whole for, like, twenty five years. I'm like, I think I can come up with something that can make a difference at scale in the world and help people.
Speaker 2:And it took me a long time to figure it out because talking about helping people is cringey a lot of times. It's not socially acceptable. Like, there's lot of people posting on social. It's like, hey. Let me go help this homeless guy out.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna record it. And it's it's like it's just like not slimy, but it's like, it feels weird. You know? So I'm like, how can I do this and not be out here preaching? Hey, check me out.
Speaker 2:You know? So You know, I almost feel that
Speaker 3:way as we're talking in a way. I'm like, please nobody think that I'm these are I just wanna be helpful and but it can be met with like, oh, you think you're better than me or what's your real motive kind of thing? Right. You know?
Speaker 2:And I think that's what a lot of people feel like because that's what I feel like. I'm like, that's why I do things in honesty. I don't want attention. Like, I don't even wear a shirt with logos on them. I don't want people looking at me.
Speaker 2:You know? Yeah. So I I was sitting there thinking, I'm like, okay. How can I do this? And I was talking with someone.
Speaker 2:They're like, like, do ever think about putting it into a game? So I was explaining we're gonna write a book, and it and that's how it came across kind of like, 75 hard. Do you ever hear that? Yeah. So 75 hard is a game, but it's not really a game.
Speaker 2:It's just like a a game of life type of thing you do when you're working out. So I'm like, okay. It's not a board game. We're gonna basically come up on a foundation to help people make a difference in the world and see what they're built for. It's like there's basically, that's what it is, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Totally. And and if anybody's listening, 75 hard is like a seventy five day challenge of some things that are pretty difficult, like workout twice a day and journal and do a bunch of other things, but it's really about locking in something that you're committed to to make a difference for yourself and for others. And so, that makes total sense. So what, what's one of the core rules in giving without remembering? Why is that such a powerful mindset?
Speaker 2:So I was thinking did you ever see Fight Club? Yeah. Long time ago. I was I was sitting there thinking like, we're talking about. It's like, okay.
Speaker 2:You don't go bragging. Like, one of the rules are give without remembering. You don't go bragging about things. And I thought about fight club. I'm like, rule number one in fight clubs, you don't talk about fight club.
Speaker 2:So I'm like, okay. That's rule number one. And the reason is it's like, to to play the game, we wanna we wanna keep it pure. It's like, if you wanna help people, there's a there's a couple of different ways you can give. You can give and nobody knows.
Speaker 2:Right? No one even knows, not even the person you helped. Like, you totally anonymous. You get to you get to see and do whatever. And then the second way is you help someone and the person that you helped also knows, which is acceptable, and that's cool.
Speaker 2:And then what we're trying to avoid is, hey. Check me out. Look how cool I was. I just went and, went to the soup kitchen or something. But there's a condition I put in there that if you are if you're trying to round people up and get more people to play the game, then you can basically broadcast and talk to people.
Speaker 2:For example, if one of your neighbors is in a hospital, you can hit up all the neighbors and say, hey. You know what? Let's do food, and every single person will do food for one night. And you're, like, talking to other people about that with the objective is to get more people involved and help somebody out. But we're gonna avoid, like, bragging, like, hey.
Speaker 2:Check me out. I'm really awesome because I'm doing x y z. You know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. We all know we all know those ones where it's like, I'm gonna go give money to somebody on the street on the video. Right. Obviously, they're just paying for views for their video, or they're just not very, they don't have much finesse and actually had to knowing how to help somebody where it's perceived that way. But so, actually, let's get into this even further because you have what you believe is that everybody has a helping style.
Speaker 3:Walk us through that and, like, what are the styles and why do they matter?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was thinking about it. It's like, okay. Kinda like the five law five love language type of thing. It's like, I think everybody's built for things, and I started thinking about myself.
Speaker 2:I'm like, I don't like helping people move. I don't like when people call me up and want me to physically go and help them. For some reason, it's like, dude, I just don't wanna do that. But if you hit me up for something else, I'm like a helper by nature. Like, I almost inject myself almost to an unhealthy place sometimes, like, to help people out in certain situations.
Speaker 2:I'm like, what's the difference here? Like, why do I really like helping people in certain ways and not other ways? I started thinking about it. I'm like, people are different. They're built different.
Speaker 2:So it's like, are you like, my wife works with special needs kids. She's real empathetic. She's a helper that way. I I couldn't do that job. That's I'm not built for that.
Speaker 2:So I started thinking like, we you could be a financial helper. You get you're the guy that, like, donates and helps people. Like, if, I have some friends that deal with the homeless in Pittsburgh, and they round up, like, 30 people every week to go feed the homeless, cook food, all that kind of stuff. And it's like there's some people in there that give them money to buy the food. There's some people that cook the food.
Speaker 2:There's some people that go down and, like, cut hair or, like, talk with people. So there's all these different helping styles, and I'm like, I think if people knew what their style was, it would it would be easy. And then more importantly, if you know what styles aren't yours, stay away from him. You know what mean? It's like it's like, hey.
Speaker 2:You know what? That's not my thing. But who John John can help you out with that or something. Like, everyone knows kinda what their helping style is. You know?
Speaker 3:I think this is, like, really smart and not something that it's straightforward, but we don't always give the same amount of effort and thought than when we would, let's say, a business that we wanna start or something like that. Of course, we sit down and plan out, like, here are my strengths and here are my weaknesses, and here's where I need to find somebody else to do those things that I just don't don't want to or can't do. But I don't think I've ever thought about it in that terms because some people might have a hard time releasing money, but they have no they have no hang up with, allowing their time to be, involved with helping people. So I love that thing. How does somebody, like, go about, doing that?
Speaker 3:You know? Like, I know it sounds straightforward, but do you have a process to where you you know what would work for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I do. So I I got it from business, actually. There's something called an energy audit. So you take a piece of paper.
Speaker 2:I got it from Dan Martell's book, buy back your time. Okay.
Speaker 3:And and I know, Dan.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I yeah. Okay. So you fold the paper in half, and, on one side gives energy, one side takes energy away. So in business, what I do is for a whole week long, I write down every single thing I do.
Speaker 2:And it's like, does this give me energy, or does it take my energy away? And at the end of the week, everything on it takes your energy away, you delegate that to other people. So I've thought about that in life, not just in business. It's like, okay. What things do I like doing, or what things don't I like doing?
Speaker 2:Like, for example, I don't like cleaning my house. Some people are like, hey. I'll pop headphones in, and that's my relaxation. Like, I love cleaning. You know?
Speaker 2:So it's like, you do that for a week on everything you do, not just in work. It's like, what things do you like doing? You like talking to people? Do you like whatever it is? And at the end of that week, you see, okay.
Speaker 2:Here are the things I like doing, and here are the things that I don't. It drains my energy. Now you know don't do the things that drain your energy. You can do them. Like, I can clean a house, but at the end of that, I'm gonna be, like, beat.
Speaker 2:It just zaps my energy out of me. But if someone's like, hey. You know what? I'm starting a business. Let's brainstorm or whatever.
Speaker 2:I'm all over that. And at the and when we're done, I'm even more excited and more energized than before I started. So it gives you a direction there. Okay. These are the things to avoid.
Speaker 2:These are the things to do. And then on my website, I also put something that's called a helper's test that you can go through and answer questions on that homeless situation that I was talking about with my friends. You go through and you select the the jobs that you would like to do in that scenario, and it'll tell you what your helping style is. Most people have more than one helping style too. So you might have, like, two or three.
Speaker 2:You might be a financial helper and a, like, a thinking helper or something. But, you go through that, and then at the end of that, you have a pretty clear idea on here's the things to avoid. Here's the things I'm really good at, and it's it breaks it into simple. It's like, basically, do you wanna pay with things with, like, sweat, time, or money? You know?
Speaker 2:Like, those are the things you can help people with.
Speaker 3:Nah. I love that. That's great. I mean, it it my head's kinda going around and around, you know, that many of the topic here on the podcast and that people are trying or on the journey to either cut back, take a break, or eventually stop around their alcohol. And there's a lot of things that you can do that can help others and in turn also help yourself, like things, little things, like getting into communities.
Speaker 3:If you see somebody post in need of some help and you think you can help, you know, just a little comment here and there or a word of advice. And I I think a lot of people will get hung up like, well, who am I to be able to con like, maybe I've only been doing this for six months. Well, you're six months ahead of that person, and you've already gone through the struggles, and you're feeling better now. Whatever piece of advice or even doesn't even have to be advice. It can just be support Really can make the difference for somebody else.
Speaker 3:And, also, you know, it reminds yourself of how far you've come. It might even remind yourself of all the things that you've done that have worked for you and the things that haven't worked for you as you're just, like, looking through this because people can help, you know, in the regard to this podcast and its theme in so many different ways, and that's just one of them.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point too because I see it a lot myself, including you get impostor syndrome. It's like Yeah. How am I gonna help that person out? Because I'm not where I need to be anyways. And and you're right.
Speaker 2:It's like anything you do, there's somebody that works off, and all you gotta do is give them a little bit of help. It's like, basically, you wanna pull people up behind you, and it's like you you are better than you think most of the times. You know I mean? It's like it's like say say you're say with drinking or something. If you found a couple tips that helped you, you might be able to share them with someone.
Speaker 2:And then even if they don't take that, it gets their wheels spinning on something that can help them in their thought process. You know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. We definitely undercut, like, our worth at times and think that we have to be these experts on everything to make a difference and help people, and that's just not the case. And most people just actually need a little bit of help and a little nudge, and it can go far.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And sometimes it's just the people that you reach out to say, hey. You know what? You saw me.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Being acknowledged. Yep. Yeah. %.
Speaker 3:So you have another thing you talk about creating a give budget. How does someone, go about doing that in a sustainable way?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so this is another mistake I made, like, when I first started helping people. I didn't have any money. Right? So but I always wanted to help people.
Speaker 2:So what I would do is, like, I'd give away my money at the beginning of the month, and then come the end of the month, I'm screwed. So I started thinking it's like, okay. You gotta budget. So you you can budget what you're paying with time, sweat money. Right?
Speaker 2:So it's like, if you're gonna pay with money, figure out, okay. Every time you get a paycheck or something, can you pull a certain percent of that out and stick it in a separate account? That's now known as your give money. So when when an opportunity pops up, you have money sitting there that you don't have to think, odd, can I afford it or not? It's just it's just there.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Same with, like, time. It's like if you're gonna get involved with organizations, especially nonprofits, intentionally know how much time you're gonna give because you can get sucked in and burn out. You know what I mean? It's a true thing.
Speaker 2:People burn out by helping people. But it's like, okay. Where am I pulling the time from? Like, am I doing thirty minutes a day? Am I doing two hours on the weekend?
Speaker 2:Like, think about it ahead of time. It'd be like, okay. When opportunities pop up, I know where I'm pulling the time from so I'm not spreading myself thin. You know? And and you just wanna think about those kind of things ahead of time.
Speaker 2:That's part of the game. You're gonna that we're gonna walk through, and it's like, here's how you decide what's your budget. And there's no right or wrong answer. It's just now you have in your head, you thought about it, so there's no surprises.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, I mean, one of the recurring things I'm hearing is that give it as much effort and thought as you would other things that you you traditionally know need some planning, you know, like business being the easiest one to think of or your career or or whatever that is. You're always gonna plan out and give those thoughts and allocate budget to certain things you're doing, whether it be time or actual, like, finances. So I I love that. I I think that makes it so much more clear that, hey.
Speaker 3:This is important to me. I'm gonna give it some thought before I just go off and running.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And the and the thing is with the say with the budget on the money side, so I have a I I've saw Dave I've watched Dave Ramsey way back in the day. He's like, you you got your different buckets for taxes and this kind of stuff. So I made a give bucket. It's like, I just put money in there, and it just grows.
Speaker 2:It's not like you put money in there, then you spend it that week. You look for people. I don't look for people that need help. I just keep my eyes open. Like, sometimes that thing just grows to a significant amount of money, and it's like, then the opportunity pops up, and you can do it.
Speaker 2:So it's like, you just have it there. It's not like you're not trying to make a job for yourself because then you gotta go find people and find ways to spend it. It's just there when opportunity arises.
Speaker 3:That's great. So it so you you've said that the person that benefits the most from helping others is often the helper. In looking back in your stories, is there one experience that you could pull from your memory that would probably stand out?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good question. So I would say, like, I noticed what you even say when I when I did the Craigslist thing. It's like, I felt alive. Like, it's like, okay. That gave me a purpose.
Speaker 2:It's like, I could do something. And I noticed, like, anytime I help people, it just energizes me, and I I feel good. Like, it's it's hard to be like, if like, I've been down before and depressed and all that kind of stuff, which is absolutely not fun at all. And it's like, this keeps me on the other side of that. It's like when you help people, you get to feel good.
Speaker 2:Even if you don't even if you don't know who you help. Like, say say you just helped anonymously, like, truly anonymous, but it puts something in your brain. Like, number one, you get to, like, be curious and, like, imagine what happened, but it it creates chemicals in your brain, like oxytocin and stuff, which physically makes you feel better. It's a it's a scientific thing. So it's like when you help people, you're technically helping yourself in unintentionally.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. No. That's great. I mean, anybody listening, that chemical is, like, the connected excuse me, the connection chemical going on in your body.
Speaker 3:Like, if you were to go heart to heart with somebody on a hug, it raises those levels. So, I mean, just on a physical and an emotional and spiritual level, there's benefits to this. And, you know, again, I've said in the beginning that part of the reason that not only to do good but part of the reason of this is just to show that there's parallels between making small changes in your habits whether it be with your with alcohol, whether it be with helping others can have a massive effect both in your life and and those around you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you know what? Small things make a difference in everything, not just helping. It's like, if you consistently do 50 push ups a day or 20 push ups or, like, whatever. If you consistently do small things, your life will change.
Speaker 2:If you consistently do bad things, you get a doughnut every day. Your life's gonna change also in that opposite direction. But it's like everything in life is like, if you just do small things consistently, then things happen. And it's not like you gotta go like, you you don't become a bodybuilder next week, but you do consistent things and you feel good. You know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's hard for people to, myself included, to understand that, you know, it takes experience or hearing it because you always think that, like, these big changes require massive shifts that, like and big amounts of effort. And while those are great and all, and to your example, like, 75 hard, those are that's great, but a lot of people, they can't sustain that, and then it drops off and gets lost. So it's better to be more consistent and in which we talk about here a lot. So if anybody's listening here, and then wanna learn more about what you're doing, your book, your movement, where could they go?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'd say you can go to Amazon if you wanted to pick up a copy of the book. Good just look up the goodness game or Brian Driscoll. And also the website, goodnessgame.com. You can go on there, download the energy audit.
Speaker 2:You can take the the, helpers test, and you can see the Craigslist video on there. All kinds of good stuff. And if you can't afford the book, I put it on the website for free. You can download it.
Speaker 3:I love it. So if anybody's listening and you probably get this question sometimes and just randomly like, what's one small act of kindness that I could do today? I don't really have any idea, you know, where to start, where where could they start to start feeling better and make a difference?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would say, first thing, keep your eyes open because it's gonna pop up, But it could be small things. It could be, like, you're sitting in traffic, you know, when you're bumper to bumper. That guy's beside you. Let him in.
Speaker 2:Like, I saw someone yesterday. I was in traffic. This guy kept edging up, like, not letting this guy in, and they're both beeping at each other. It's like like, you guys just created a whole bunch of anxiety. All you had to do is, like, be nice and let the guy in.
Speaker 2:But it's like if you're at at a McDonald's or Starbucks or something, buy some coffee behind you. And then because they you don't even get to see their reaction because you're gone. They don't know who you are. But small things like that. Or if you see people like just pay attention to someone.
Speaker 2:Like, you're it's like put the phone down and just have a conversation with somebody, like your family or just a stranger or anything. Like, just different things like that. It's not big things. It's like, just you can do, like, super like, paying attention to someone and talking for five minutes. Anybody can do that.
Speaker 2:You know?
Speaker 3:I love how, like, insignificant those those seem, but they're like, they make such an impact when you get them. Like, for example, I've gotten a free coffee from somebody on Starbucks. That always, like, makes a difference. There's been times when, or even, like, you know, everybody ain't driving here is such a jerk. You know?
Speaker 3:Like, I'm losing my faith in humanity almost. And then all of a sudden, somebody does something nice and you're like, oh, yeah. I guess there are nice people out here. So it gets Yeah. Like, it is, like, the smallest things are I've even done dumb things like, alright.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go on this hike. I hiked in this area. I'm gonna say hello and smile to every single person that I pass even if it's, like, super crowded and most people don't say hi. And most people are friendly. Some people have, like, a frown upside down.
Speaker 3:And if you can crack that to a smile, like, it kinda feels good.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's funny you say that one. So I went to there was a kindness festival I got invited to last week in in Cleveland. So I drove up there, and I took my son. He's nine years old.
Speaker 2:Like, hey. What you what do I I I had them all give me, like, an objective. What are you guys gonna what's what are guys gonna do here? And my one's my one son's goal, he wanted to get a hundred smiles. Like, that was his goal.
Speaker 2:He's like, I'm getting a hundred smiles on people. I'm like, I'm like, that's pretty interesting. You know? But like you're saying, it's that that anybody can do that. You you don't have to talk to someone to get someone to smile.
Speaker 2:You're gonna smile. You know?
Speaker 3:It's so good, especially, like, kids think of all those things. But well, Brian, thanks so much for coming on today. I hope everyone listening got something out of this. I know I did, and you should definitely go check out what Brian has going on. I love his work.
Speaker 3:I love his mission, and I love the positivity. So thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Hey. Thanks for having me. It's a good time.
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