The 5 Pillars of Crafting Mocktails w/ Lila Volkas
Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, the podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and of course, your own mindful drinking journey. In part two, I'm back with Lila Volkus, certified nutrition consultant and co creator of Mocktail School. She's taught Fortune 500 companies how to replace happy hour with wellness focused mocktail classes. Today, Lila shares her five pillar framework for crafting alcohol free drinks that actually rival cocktails. You'll hear how to layer flavor, build texture, and even use functional ingredients that boost mood.
Speaker 1:Plus the myths she's ready to bust in her. I think that that that you mentioned that is a great direction to go to. So, like, let's talk a little bit about your craft and presentation and all that. And so how do you think about flavor and presentation when crafting these drinks?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So I have I have kind of, like, my five pillars of a kind of, I would say, successful nonalcoholic drink or, like, a framework that I I look at and that I
Speaker 1:Five pillars, frameworks. I think it's perfect. Yeah. Just gonna do it.
Speaker 2:So this is for my nonalc mixology classes. So the five elements that I'm I think kind of help steer you towards and help kind of assess if something is a a good nonalcoholic cocktail is number one, complexity. I think complexity is really what sets a single note lemonade or iced tea apart from a cocktail. It has, you know, it carries a a story of flavor. There's multiple layers.
Speaker 2:So, that's kind of one thing that I am involving in my own recipes and that I'm looking for when I'm, trying, you know, nonalcoholic beverages out in the world. So that complexity. For me, I I love using, you know, nonalcoholic products. And, also, I really love using food. Since I'm a big food and beverage nerd, and I do cooking, and I like experimenting in the kitchen, I'm using vinegar.
Speaker 2:I'm fermenting things. I'm making syrups. That's not for everybody, but that's kind of my particular style.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Fermenting your your Oh. The real deal here. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So that's element number one. Element number two is intensity. So we need something that has this stopping power. So as we we drink a a full proof cocktail, that alcohol is intense, and it it slows us down to kind of sip our drink, especially if it is a lovely $16 cocktail at a nice bar.
Speaker 2:We don't wanna chug that. We wanna we wanna sip it. So having intense flavors, like things that are bitter, things that are sour, spicy, or even just kind of, like, turning up the volume of those, of those flavors to help slow down the drinking experience. So a lot of nonalcoholic spirits, will include capsaicin, you know, this pepper extract to get that kind of spicy bite. So that's one way that, you know, some brands are incorporating that.
Speaker 2:Personally, I don't always want a spicy cocktail. So I like to mix it up with, using tea and vinegar and these other kind of stopping agents that help slow you down.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I have heard, like, vinegar like, bringing that bite in, like, the the vinegar can do that as well. Alright. So we got complexity Those are the two. And intensity.
Speaker 2:Number three is texture. So alcohol has a specific texture. We make something that's purely juice and, a juice combo. It's gonna be really thin and watery. So we need to incorporate texture, whether that's through our ingredients, that's carbonation, that's maybe, you know, egg white foam, maybe that's a syrup to thicken it up, or we can incorporate it from how we're making our drink.
Speaker 2:So we're shaking it, we're aerating it, we're adding some you know, depending on the ingredients, we might be adding some foam. And, also, any other kinds of thickeners, you could even include, like, guar gum or, other nonalcoholic spirits often will will include some of those textured agents to get that kinda nice mouthfeel. So I'd say, like, an interesting mouth experience is how I can describe that.
Speaker 1:A that's a nice string of words together. You know, you mentioned, the non alcohol spirits. When people are as we're going through the list, do you often incorporate those in the drink? Like, you know, how you always incorporate you got your mixer and you got your alcohol. Is it a totally different approach when it comes to your, like are you bringing in your nonalcoholic spirit plus other ingredients, or are you, like, sort of maybe making it all from scratch?
Speaker 2:I like to give examples of both. So I like to use, like, one recipe where we use a nonalcoholic spirit, and then maybe one where it's completely food based. So I do you know, in my in my in person classes, there's a lot more flexibility that I can, like, sample five or more different products to have people taste that, and then it's more easy to use it in recipes. I'm working with you know, most people are getting single serving, you know, boxes. So that makes it a little bit harder to work with with sending people those nonalcoholic spirits.
Speaker 2:Shout out to nonalcoholic spirit brands to make more mini bottles for me, please. And but
Speaker 1:Like the airplane bottles are a little
Speaker 2:bit Yes. The airplane bottles. They I know how labor and cost intensive making single serving things are, so I know why they don't do it. But that really would would help me out.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm friends with Marcus Seyke over at Ritual.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yes. Ritual is one of is one of the the few that actually I that have those mini bottles.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah? Cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I really appreciate that. I don't know if it's, like, available all the time everywhere, but definitely, like, let's let's connect about that. So okay. Back to our back to our
Speaker 1:Yeah. We you left off on texture. I took you off course.
Speaker 2:That's okay. So the fourth element is aesthetics. So making it beautiful, making it intentional, putting it in a nice glass, garnishing it, and that really, really changes our experience of our drink when it is presented in an intentional way. You know, thinking about drinking, you know, juice out of a mug versus or, like, a vodka cranberry out of a mug versus in a cocktail glass, really different experience. So Totally.
Speaker 2:I really like to go to thrift stores and get usually only one cool glass, but that's that works for me. I'll use it for my photoshoots, but that's a fun way to kind of experiment with glassware.
Speaker 1:It's so crazy how it actually can change the taste and the experience.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, we travel a lot and, like, some some like, the house that we're in right now, all they have are, like, coffee mugs and stuff like that. And, like, sometimes I'll go get a hazy IPA NA at the store, and I'm like, man, I don't have a glass to pour this in, to look at it, watch the condensation. It'd be hazy. I'm drinking it out of the can, and I'm like, it just doesn't taste as good.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. Totally. And if I
Speaker 1:put it in a coffee mug, that would just be ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Totally. And, like, it's so it's a it's a vessel, but it it really changes the experience. Yeah. And also, thinking about the shape of different glassware also will really change that experience of how much scent you're getting. Is there carbonation?
Speaker 2:Is it being kept in more than in a, like, a long, you know, champagne flute versus, like, a very wide mouth kind of goblet glass? Yeah. Alright. So our we're we're on to number five, which is I would say number five is optional, but it it is one thing that I really like to incorporate, which is function, what we talked about at the beginning. So if we don't have alcohol in there providing, you know, a a an intoxicating, kind of experience, we could intentionally integrate some ingredients that give us some sort of wellness experience or, some other experience.
Speaker 2:Because a lot of times, we're you know, folks who, enjoy alcohol will drink it for both the taste, but also the, effects. So why not integrate a different effect? And they can be in in varying levels. I think caffeine is, you know, is so common in our everyday, you know, life, but we don't necessarily think about that as a functional ingredient, but it definitely is. Gives us some energy.
Speaker 2:So integrating some sort of caffeinated tea, green tea, white tea, oolong, puer, into our our drinks is a great way to get that. Or we could integrate those adaptogens, nootropics. We could integrate kava. And so there's a range of, like, more chill experiences to stronger experiences that we could integrate as alternatives to alcohol's function.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious because, actually, as you were saying, some of these I wrote the same thing down. I have kava. I've Mhmm. Like, you have delta nine and some of these other things. What of the the adaptogens or other things that could be mood enhancing, have you noticed that actually work?
Speaker 1:Because, like, I see, like personally, Kala gets, like, marketed a lot, and I've tried it. I didn't notice anything, to be honest. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would say that, you know, it all depends on dosing and how it is extracted or the the vehicle of, like, is it a powder? Is it an extract? And how frequently you're drinking it and and how much. So Yeah.
Speaker 2:I would say, in terms of, like, adaptogens, adaptogens really need to be taken consistently over a period of time to really get the benefits
Speaker 1:of those. Interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just having ashwagandha in a seltzer one time is not necessarily gonna give you the stress relief that you may be looking for. But, you know, placebo is a very powerful thing. So if you think this is gonna relieve your stress, by all means, go for it. Please. Whereas I would say that, you know, there are other herbs and ingredients, for example, kava, as being a much stronger kind of immediate experience.
Speaker 2:So I I personally have experimented with kava, you know, starting back in my elixir elixir days, and I'm lucky enough to have some Cava bars in my area. I live in the Bay Area. And so that's where when I was out on the dating scene before I was married, the Cava Bar was my go to date spot because I wanted something that was not alcohol focused to connect with people. It had, like, kind of, like, a kind of, like, a party or, like, a cafe plus kind of, you know, party vibe. There were couches.
Speaker 2:It was a great place to, like, socialize versus a bar and get something that was, at that time, you know, kinda nonexistent, those options. But, yeah, I'm curious what form of Kava and and how you've tried it. What You
Speaker 1:know, I I would say that I wasn't trying to say that it doesn't work, but I would say that it probably shouldn't have even been mentioned because I only did it, like, once or twice.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I think that it was actually one of those brands that now is under fire because it has other things in it, like kratom or one of those other, like But it's bottled like it's natural, which is, like, really deceiving.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, no, you know, just listening to you talk, I'm like, I really gotta try that again.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I In terms of, you know, I I've tried Cava Haven, and I've really enjoyed it. I've also heard great things about Cava Hall as nonalcoholic kava spirits. Because kava, you know, the the Latin term translates to intoxicating pepper. And so it has this peppery taste, which and it also tastes very, like, of the earth as well.
Speaker 2:And that can be hard to work with when you're trying to make a drink taste yummy. So it can be great as a shot or if you learn to love the taste. But I think that some of these nonalc brands are balancing it really well, particularly Cava Haven, includes ginger and lemon, and I think that works really nicely with kava. I've had it in probably every different form that you could have it. I've I've made it where you take this, you know, powdered root and you massage it into water, and you that's how you do it.
Speaker 2:You can do it in a blender and then strain it out. But, typically, you don't want to, you don't wanna drink the the actual kava root. You want to drink only the water. Or if it's an extract, that's where you can usually consume powders and such.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Okay. Yeah. No. I'll definitely give it another try, because I it's it actually has been years, and and it I'm hearing it from the experts, so I'll go with that.
Speaker 1:Alright. So we have complexity. We have intensity. We have texture. We have aesthetics.
Speaker 1:We have function.
Speaker 2:That's that that's my that's my five that I talk about.
Speaker 1:Alright. I love it. And so everybody has a a formula that they can use. Now, let's do the lightning ram because I it leads right into the next question is, what's your favorite mocktail of all time?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Well, I would say all time is hard, but one that I had recently that, like, really knocked my my socks off was this it was a milk punch, so clarified with genmaicha, green tea, sesame, wormwood, and it had a banana foam at one of my favorite nonalcoholic, you know, or bar restaurants that have a great nonalcoholic program in Albany, California called Juanita and Maude, and it was amazing.
Speaker 1:That sound complex and beyond my my taste palate. It was
Speaker 2:it was really good. It was really good. So that's what that's initially what has come to mind because, the clarification is, like, a whole other layer, that, like, really makes it, like, a very smooth and silky kind of taste. It's, like, clear, and you're able to infuse all these different cool flavors in there.
Speaker 1:Wow. That sound that does sound really cool. Okay. The only reason I said my palate is I'm like, it'd probably be wasted on me. I'm just, like, not that sophisticated.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that I it honestly was, like, a refreshing have you there's banana water. Have you had banana water?
Speaker 1:I've never heard I've never had that.
Speaker 2:It's it's now, like, becoming more available. I would say it's a great alternative to coconut water. But if you can find banana water
Speaker 1:Interesting. I would
Speaker 2:give it a try. It it banana is caramelly. It's sweet. It has this really notable you know, it it tastes it tastes delicious. So if you like coconut water, you may like banana water.
Speaker 2:If you also like
Speaker 1:banana water. I do like cano coconut water, but it brings up bad memories because I was in, about 20 years old. I was living in Puerto Rico at the time, and I they had coconut water there. And I remember drinking it and being like, man, if somebody if if I could just import this, I'd probably make a lot of money. And then, like, ten years later, it's, like, in every store.
Speaker 1:So, anyways, okay. Next question. I'm gonna throw one in actually that isn't here, which is what's your favorite mocktail if you're in a rush? Either you make it yourself or you buy it off ready made off the shelf.
Speaker 2:Probably, I'm I love hibiscus tea. I've got hibiscus tea. I throw, like, maybe, a non alk spirit in there, like some Pathfinder or some Applose, and, honestly, maybe a little bit of sweetener, but, like, non alk spirit, and a little bit of sweetener or an acid, like a a lemon or lime. Awesome.
Speaker 1:Okay. One myth about nonalcoholic drinks that you'd love the bust.
Speaker 2:Alright. I would say, you know, I'm sure everyone says this one, but mocktails are not just juice. The I would consider those old school old school nonalcohol cocktails aka mocktails. New school, you know, mocktails are the complex things. I'm a fan of the word because everybody knows what it means.
Speaker 2:So I guess that's also my other hot take that I'm throwing in.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I was gonna I I know you non alc and a, no and low alcohol, mocktail. And I know that there's probably, like, industry jargon that gets argued on what's correct. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I mean, you know, say whatever people understand is my my goal, and I am glad we're having this, you know, this discussion, which means that more people care. So
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. That's great. So you're saying just no need to correct other people.
Speaker 2:I will not I I market my things as as mocktail because people know what it is. It is probably the most searched term Yeah. Related to non ALK. So I want people to find me in my offerings and my classes. And most people who find me are new to non alk mixology.
Speaker 2:Now bar and restaurant menus, sure. You have people's attention. They're sitting at your bar they're sitting at your restaurant or your bar. They're here to order a drink. They're looking at the menu.
Speaker 2:Call it call it a zero proof concoction. Call it a low ABV or no ABV. Organize things by ABV. I think that's my ultimate dream is that everything is just organized by the alcohol by volume, and it's just all on the same page, and it's not, like, specific other section.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. That's great. I mean, the way I always categorized them was find the one with the highest ABV. But I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 1:So okay. Alright. Last one. What's something that you hope people take with them after one of your workshops?
Speaker 2:I hope people feel inspired and excited that, there are so many possibilities of new products to experiment with and that there are many, many things in your kitchen that you can use to make delicious complex, nonalcoholic cocktails.
Speaker 1:That's a great way to look at it and leave people inspired. I love that. So well, Lila, this has been amazing. I want you to share with us how people can get ahold of you, any projects that you have coming up. Maybe somebody listening wants to see if they can come get you to come and teach at their place of work or just, you know, reach out and thank you or ask a question.
Speaker 1:What's the best way for them to learn more?
Speaker 2:Totally. So, you can find me on Instagram, just my name, Lila Volkis, and that's also my website, lilavolkis.com. And I'm also a cocreator of the mocktail school, which is essentially a deep dive into a lot of what we talked about. And currently, it is a four week live virtual kind of course that you can learn mix basic mixology skills, how to apply that to nonalcoholic ingredients, for people who just wanna get nerdy or if you're starting a business or want to go deeper into the nonalc beverage space. And that's the mocktail school on on the web and mocktail school on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Yeah. If anybody's interested, make sure to reach out. Mila's great to hang out with. And, well, thank you so much for for coming here, sharing.
Speaker 1:I actually had a ton of fun with you, so thank you.
Speaker 2:Me too. Thanks for having me. It's been great.
Speaker 1:This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number one alcohol moderation platform, having helped hundreds of thousands of people cut out more than 13,000,000 drinks since 2020. And in fact, an independent study showed that Sunnyside reduced alcohol consumption by an average of 30% in ninety days. And as one of our members shared, Sunnyside helps me stay mindful of my drinking habits. It's not super restrictive. So if I'm craving a glass of wine with dinner, I just track it and I move on with my week.
Speaker 1:If you could benefit from drinking a bit less and being more mindful of when and how much you drink, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free fifteen day trial. You'll get access to everything that we offer, including tracking and planning tools, coaching from our experts, a vibrant community of people just like you, and the motivation and advice to stay on track with your health goals, all with no pressure to quit. That's sunnyside.co.
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