Journey to the Sunnyside

Mike: 00:00

Welcome to Journey to the Sunnyside, a podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and, of course, inspire your own mindful drinking journey. This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number 1 alcohol moderation platform. And if you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free 15 day trial. I'm your host, Mike Hardenbrook, published author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert.

Mike: 00:37

Okay. Today, I'm joined with Susan Tenby. Susan, thank you for coming on the show today.

Susan: 00:42

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Mike: 00:44

Absolutely. So just to get started, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, where you live now, or a recent fun story?

Susan: 00:53

K. So I am from Honolulu, Hawaii originally, but I've been in San Francisco since college, and that's a long time ago. And I I live in the Du DuBose Triangle neighborhood, and I'm a very social extroverted person. And I work online at home here. But I go out every night pretty much to go do fun things with my friends and very social.

Susan: 01:23

And fun, interesting story is that I every Tuesday, I go to trivia at the bar on the corner, and we won. And that this last week. That's a fun story. But we won our trivia contest.

Mike: 01:39

Is there a subject that's your favorite or that you're the best at?

Susan: 01:43

I'm good at I'm good at, like, old cinema. So I can I can look at a screen still and know what movie it is? And so that's what pushed us over the edge.

Mike: 01:55

Very cool. I think that's really relevant being on Journey to the Sunnyside. And, obviously, you're a customer of Sunnyside, and you're gonna share your story. And I love to be able to hear that you still go and do the same things that you did before, including trivia night at the bar down the road. But maybe bring us back a little bit.

Mike: 02:16

What was the point that you decided that you wanted to make some changes and be more mindful from your drinking?

Susan: 02:21

Yeah. So in general, I'm oh, I'm over 50, and I, am turning 53 on Sunday. And I realized that I'm a cancer survivor, and it's it's get there's health risks involved in drinking. And I've wanted to drink less for many years since my twenties or thirties, since my thirties. But it never really happened because I'm very social and drinking is part of being social in San Francisco.

Susan: 02:53

And and I've taken on more mindful activities in general. Like, I'm trying to I'm trying a mindfulness eating thing right now to lose some weight. And I think as you get older and it's also not a it's not a pretty look to be so drunk. I noticed I started to black out, and that had never happened to me before. And that was like, woah.

Susan: 03:16

For some people, like, they make a joke about, oh, yeah. I black out every Tuesday. But for me, that wasn't good. And it was getting I realized, like, it it hadn't happened before and it was happening, and I started to get concerned. Okay.

Susan: 03:31

I don't wanna be having lapse in memory. I don't wanna be affecting my relationships by saying something that I don't mean and getting in fights when I'm drunk. That started happening. And then I was told that I said something that I I have no recollection of saying that was offensive to somebody, and I don't wanna be that person either. So it's it's been a long time of me talking about it and thinking I should drink less.

Susan: 03:58

I should drink less. And then when the doctors ask you how much you drink, I know that in their heads, they double it. And, so I would say the real amount, and then I would say, don't double it. This is the amount. And their eyes would widen.

Susan: 04:12

And I think, okay. So I'm drinking a lot, but it's all everybody has their own relationship to drinking. And some people, it's thought maybe what my amount isn't a lot for some people, but it was feeling like too much for me. I knew it was not good for my health. I knew that there's a cancer risk, but I didn't wanna stop drinking.

Susan: 04:31

So I I wasn't really sure what to do. And then I saw this Facebook ad from Sunnyside, and it was a girl basically saying exactly this, Like, a woman saying exactly the same thing. And I so I looked into it, and then I think I put it I looked at the ad and read it, and then I left. And I came back, and the ad was refed to me as that works, remarketed to me. And I thought about it for a few days, and then I just didn't.

Susan: 05:02

And I paid a $100 to join. And it's weirdly, I've been, I think, a year already, and it's helped. I haven't stopped drinking at all, and that was never the intent. But I have definitely minimized my drinking. And maybe not by half, some months by half, but mostly just, I would say, 25% less that I wanna go a little bit further.

Susan: 05:26

I wanna make it so I'm drinking under 10 drinks a week.

Mike: 05:30

Yes. Good for you. And I think that's just so common. I think most of the people listening to this can relate in 1 way or another or to everything you said right there. And if somebody were to ask you, what is mindful drinking?

Mike: 05:44

What is that to you?

Susan: 05:45

So honestly, without the app, and I'm not just saying that because I'm on your podcast. I'm being honest. It's funny because I've been talking about this app to a lot of people before you guys reached out to me. Like, III was, like, being a free spokesperson. Anyway, because it for me, what it is knowing an amount of drinks, being aware of how much I was drinking, and having, like, specific goals around it.

Susan: 06:14

I'm not gonna drink 2 days in a row. That didn't used to be the case. Or if I do, I'm not gonna drink every day of the week, and I'm not gonna drink more than 4 days a week. And, then eventually, I'm gonna move it to 3 days a week. And, I'm not going to drink more than ever more than 3 drinks in a session.

Susan: 06:31

And if I do drink more than 3 drinks in a session, I know I feel terrible. On Tuesday, I drank 4 glasses of wine and felt really awful all day. Paid for it all day on Wednesday. But if I drink 2, I feel okay. But it's everybody has their own thing.

Susan: 06:47

But for me, it's like having those numbers and being reminded by the app. Like, sometimes I'm thinking, how many drinks? Because I know I have a budget in the same way that, like, Weight Watchers gives people a budget for what the how many points and so forth. It's like that. And I know that I have a budget of x amount of drinks per week.

Susan: 07:07

And so I and then the app will tell me, like, I'll think, when are we gonna get after tonight? The app will say the app will say, today is not a drinking day. Or the app will say, you have 2 drinks today. And if I if I drink 4, then I know that on my 2 drink day, I'm not gonna have any.

Mike: 07:22

Yeah. That's great. Weren't you interviewed for dry January by the San Francisco is it San Francisco standard?

Susan: 07:30

Yes. I was. And it was funny because I would've shared it more widely because I have a social media following, but I was a little bit embarrassed because the first sentence was Susan Temby loves to drink or something like that. But, I wasn't excited to tell people, but, yeah, I it is true. I was interviewed by The Standard, and it the whole thing started with me and ended with me.

Susan: 07:54

I was, like, the the main focal point of that article, and it was about this. It was about this very topic, and I think it's taboo. People are are afraid to talk about it, And yet it shouldn't be because it's not illegal, and there's nothing wrong. And there's a lot of people that are California sober, which means they smoke weed instead of drinking. And, yeah, it's legal here, so I can admit that I've I do that.

Susan: 08:20

That's helped me drink less just to round out the edges after a long day rather than drinking myself unconscious.

Mike: 08:26

I like to say that whatever works for you is the right solution.

Susan: 08:31

Yeah. And, also, I have a lifetime of insomnia, and as I get older, it gets worse. And drinking makes that worse. Like, drinking, even though you would think it helps, it actually makes you wake because you metabolize the alcohol. It makes you wake up in the middle of the night.

Susan: 08:50

So that's another reason is my insomnia.

Mike: 08:53

Yeah. So I'm curious to know what features or what parts about the about Sunnyside do you feel is really helping you? That you're like, yes. This thing is getting me towards my goals.

Susan: 09:05

I love that it's text based. I love that I don't have to remember to go. The app texts me, and it's right there. And it it's even once a week to check-in to make the change. I haven't really reduced my budget for the week very much, maybe a couple times.

Susan: 09:22

Usually, I just write same, and it's the same the next week. But I love that it's what works for me is that it's text based, that it reaches out to me both in the evening before I go out and in the the next morning to see if I how I did. If I go way over, it doesn't make me feel terrible. It says, that's okay. You can get and if I do well, it encourages me with hands up in the air.

Susan: 09:47

And so I feel good. I like seeing the progress. I like seeing the results that I like, I've actually lowered my drinking. Like, I have. It's legit, and I've done that.

Susan: 10:00

So I like to know that. It's not like I feel maybe I have. I'm I can see the results.

Mike: 10:06

I'm interested because the article also was about dry January or dryish January. So what are your thoughts on dry versus dryish January just for you personally?

Susan: 10:17

I didn't do dry January this year, but I often do usually do sober October. I think it's good to take a month off of drinking to know that you can, and I probably should be concerned that I didn't. But dry ish, you can do I've done that too. Instead of sober October, I called it drink significantly less October. But it is good to know that you can do that, that you can that you are empowered to take that step and drink less and that you have enough self control.

Mike: 10:53

Can you think of an instance where you succeeded instead of failed?

Susan: 10:57

So it's a good point. So, yes, I know now when I go out, if I have a if I have a it's a 2 drink night, I will order water in between my drinks to space it out so that the social activity doesn't feel like it's cut short just because the drinks are stopped. So I do that. I also I'll know my limit for the night because I have it on the app, and I I don't wanna feel like shit about myself at the end of the week when I've gone over by 5. And before I might have think, oh, I should drink less tonight, but I don't think of it as a holistic weekly budget.

Susan: 11:36

So I just keep going. So it's it's good to make me stop.

Mike: 11:41

Yeah. And what about on the on your dry days? Are there is there a go to strategy that you like to use when you're tempted to to break that commitment?

Susan: 11:51

I generally honestly don't go out on my dry days. I stay home and watch a movie or read or something, talk on the phone because I am very much a social drinker. I never drink at home. I I thought I have so much alcohol at my house from gifts from people, and I never I'm not ever motivated to drink by myself. So it's just if I'm not drinking, I'm not going out.

Susan: 12:14

And if I am going out, I'm usually drinking.

Mike: 12:17

It's great. I wish I could say the same. If I could use star r all the time, it'd be hard for me not to look at it and be tempted.

Susan: 12:25

Yeah. I have 0 interest in drinking by myself. It's it it is very much a social thing.

Mike: 12:31

When you do go out, are you starting to see more of your friends change their relationship with alcohol or even question it or maybe ask you about your experience so far?

Susan: 12:41

Some of my friends. It's funny because 1 of my friends, specifically, last week this past weekend, I said to him, because he wanted to get me another drink, and I said, it's a 2 drink night for me. I count. And he was like, what do you mean? I said, I count my drinks.

Susan: 12:55

And he's like, why? And I said, so I don't become a raging alcoholic because I wanna drink still. And he I said, how many drinks have you had this week? And he's, I don't know. Are you talking about how many days a week I've drank or how many drinks in a session?

Susan: 13:11

And I said, how many drinks? And he it hadn't occurred to him. And he's, put a drink at the surf lounge of the bar he goes to is this big, and it's full of vodka, whereas a drink at a cocktail place down the street from you is a fancy drink, and it's this big, and there's only this much, so you can't really count them. And I'm like, that's a good point. We should think about standardizing what is a drink.

Susan: 13:36

That's an excellent point, but I'm still aware of it. So being aware of it is half the battle. Like, it hadn't even occurred to him to count his drinks.

Mike: 13:45

It blows my mind a little bit, but it's just so common. You're just not even thinking about it. Also, what is 1 benefit on this mindful drinking journey that you're on? It could be health. It could be mental clarity or sleep.

Mike: 14:00

They've just really experienced that are saying, wow. This is a a great bonus to have.

Susan: 14:06

I have fewer hangovers. That's a great bonus. I I was hungover a lot a couple years ago, like, during the height of the pandemic when my friends and I were meeting up at the park at night to drink after work and talk about how it was the end of the world. Like, we all sat there at the park on the corner on blankets outside in the grass and drank gallons of red wine. And I was hungover for a year, and it's not great.

Susan: 14:34

When I got it's also it doesn't look good. I think it when you're like, as you get older, I just think it's not becoming to be drunk all the time. So yeah. Or to be drunk every night. So that it's it's it's not good for your health.

Susan: 14:51

It's not good for your looks, and I have fewer hangovers. So that those are some bonuses. There's a lot of calories in alcohol and the sleep. The sleep thing is big. I sleep better when I don't drink.

Susan: 15:03

I hate to admit that because I don't wanna stop drinking, but I do sleep a lot better when I don't drink. I know I do.

Mike: 15:09

Yeah. That's probably the biggest benefit that I've noticed. Even not the night that I did drink, it's the following day even I wouldn't sleep well. It takes a couple days to catch up, and a lot of people don't realize that impact carries over multiple days. What about when you're going out?

Mike: 15:26

Do you get any resistance from people? I know that you just shared a story about, 1 person asking why you're counting your drinks. What about other instances?

Susan: 15:36

There are people that have said to me friends that have said to me, why can't you just do it on your own? Why do you need an app? Or why that app? Why not just use, like, any app that counts stuff? And because it's designed really well, and I haven't done it before.

Susan: 15:52

I am an app based, phone based person, and yet I have not done this. So there must be something to the way that it is designed, the checking in constantly to remind me, the knowing I have a budget, like, all of those kind of elements looking at whether, I'm gonna pull up my app to explain what I'm trying to think about. But to to look at the red versus green, the stoplight iconography, I don't know how to say that, but, here. And I know the phone number. It starts with the 628.

Susan: 16:27

So here. Okay. This is my this is the week. Like, these green things mean I did good. Yeah.

Susan: 16:34

And they roll out so it's like that. And the hands up in the air is, oh, you achieved your goal. So it's like all of those reward systems make you feel better. If I I've only drank 6 drinks this week, and I'm gonna be under my target. Whereas if I go over my target and there's a red, then I feel like, well, that wasn't very good.

Susan: 16:56

But it's that kind of reward system that works for me.

Mike: 16:59

Yeah. And

Susan: 17:01

I do think that's something to do with the accountability even if it's not a real person on the other end. And then there's also there's also the part that I paid for it, and that's the whole concept of what people talked about with Freud. Freud talked about how the act of therapy works because you pay for it. The value. Like, I paid a $100.

Susan: 17:22

I wanna I'm not gonna not do it.

Mike: 17:25

Yeah. Accountability is always good. A little bit of of money in that also holds you a little more accountable in another level. If somebody was thinking about trying Sunnyside and they asked you, I don't know. I'm thinking about it, or I'm thinking about cutting back a little bit.

Mike: 17:40

How would you answer that?

Susan: 17:42

I would I said it on somebody's Facebook post. They posted, I'm I'm done with drinking. It's ruined my relationship, and she posted it. I asked her. I'm like, why did you post that publicly?

Susan: 17:52

And she said, for accountability. And I said and I wrote in the comments. I wrote I said privately, why did you post that? And then the open comment, I wrote, you don't have to you don't actually have to give up drinking. You can drink less.

Susan: 18:06

And I got attacked by all the sober nonsense I shouldn't say that. Edit that out, please. And all the sober folk the sober people were yelling at me. This is safe. Okay.

Susan: 18:18

For a lot of people, that is it works. But yet, it's not the only option, and you don't have to give up. If you love drinking, if you love wine, or you like the social activity, you don't have to give it up. You can, you can drink less, and it is easier if there's something to remind you. And you have this kind of even if it's just a chatbot, you have this kind of digital support system and you have the reminder and the check ins and all that, it makes it easier.

Mike: 18:50

This has been awesome. I wanna thank you for coming on. What's 1 thing that you're excited about this month before we go?

Susan: 18:57

That I lost £5 because I started a mindful eating program.

Mike: 19:01

Awesome.

Susan: 19:01

Yeah. And I'm I think I'm just, in general, be more mindful of my health because because I'm older, because I'm a cancer survivor, because I I've been fun and partying for years, but now I'm turning the corner. I wanna remain youthful and fun and not get old before. I don't want health conditions where I have to take a pill, like high blood pressure, diabetes, anything like that. I wanna stay healthy.

Susan: 19:28

Yeah. So this is all in that direction.

Mike: 19:32

No. I think that's amazing, and it sounds like you're right on that path. So well, thank you so much, Susan, for coming on.

Susan: 19:38

Thank you.

Mike: 19:40

This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number 1 alcohol moderation platform, having helped 100 of thousands of people cut out more than 13, 000, 000 drinks since 2020. And in fact, an independent study showed that Sunnyside reduced alcohol consumption by an average of 30% in 90 days. And as 1 of our members shared, Sunnyside helps me stay mindful of my drinking habits. It's not super restrictive. So if I'm craving a glass of wine with dinner, I just track it and I move on with my week.

Mike: 20:11

If you could benefit from drinking a bit less and being more mindful of when and how much you drink, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free 15 day trial. You'll get access to everything that we offer, including tracking and planning tools, coaching from our experts, a vibrant community of people just like you, and the motivation and advice to stay on track with your health goals, all with no pressure to quit. That's sunnyside.co.