Setting the Right Goals for Your Drinking Journey w/ Hilary Sheinbaum
Hey there. Welcome back to Journey to the Sunnyside. I'm Mike Hardenbrook, your host. And today we're joined by Hilary Scheinbaum, the author of Going Dry, a Workbook, and the Dry Challenge. She's the founder of going dry dotco and an advocate for the sober curious movement since 2017.
Speaker 1:Hillary has been helping people explore what it means to live with less alcohol. Today, we're talking about setting the right goals for your drinking journey. Whether it's going completely dry, cutting back, or finding a balance that works for you. Let's dive in and hear from Hillary about how to make these decisions, and create a plan that fits your lifestyle. Okay.
Speaker 1:Today, I have Hillary Sheinbaum with us. Hillary, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, you wrote a book. You've done things around challenges. You've done a lot of things in the Sober curious movement, but everything has an origin story. So let's start with yours.
Speaker 1:What got you on this entire journey around the serve sober curious movement and to actually get involved with it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it kinda started by accident. I'm gonna take you back to 2016. Around that time, I was a red carpet and entertainment reporter, and my job was to literally interview celebrities on red carpets and attend really cool events in New York and after parties. And my quote, unquote day job really started at, like, 5:30 PM, right, when everybody was kind of wrapping up work.
Speaker 2:And sometimes my job would end at 2 AM when I was coming home from after party. And, I wasn't necessarily drinking every night, but it wasn't, like, frowned upon. I was allowed to have drinks if I wanted to. And during the day, because at the time there were very few freelancers or people who really work from home, I actually wrote about food and beverage, and I would often go to events where there were wine tastings during the day or even the evenings that I wasn't working parties, I would be invited to cocktail hours by huge brands that a lot of us know. So, anyway, long story short, towards the end of 2016, I had dinner with a friend, and he asked me if I had any New Year's resolutions coming up for 2017.
Speaker 2:And I said no because I typically if I wanna change something, I do it that week or that coming Monday or the next day. I'm not gonna wait till January to, like, make a change. So I told him no, and he asked me if I knew about this thing called dry January. And I just changed the subject because my job and everything I just told you, plus I was single and dating in New York and a very social person in general, it just didn't really fit my lifestyle at the time or my my job. It was my I my actual job to write about alcohol.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we we continued with dinner. I went home and I a week later, it was New Year's Eve, and while I was tipsy, I started texting him with a glass of champagne in one hand and my cell phone in the other. And I actually proposed that we make a bet and see who could do it to our January. And he thought that his odds were really good because of everything I just told you. And I thought that my odds were great because he was always my plus one, and he went out more than I did.
Speaker 2:So we agreed, and our our bet started at midnight. So when the ball dropped, I put down my drink, and that is really what started my 1st dry January. So this coming January will be my 9th year, and I've done dry January every year since and certainly a number of other dry months and dry periods, so, like, for 6 months, for 4 months, for however long that I've just taken a break. And so I drink a lot less than I used to, and I definitely learned so much about myself and my relationship with other people surrounding alcohol and definitely have a lot of physical, mental, and emotional benefits came from taking a break even for such a short period of time, 31 days. So I've become a huge advocate for drinking less and living more, and, that's how it started.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love the story. I mean, I think everybody listening can relate to that in some form or another, either making the promise or wanting to be more mindful around drinking. But I wanna close the loop on the story, and that is what was on the line, and how did your friend do?
Speaker 2:So about, like, 2 or 3 weeks in, I wanna say it was, like, 3 weeks, my friend met a girl at a bar who peer pressured him into drinking. He struck up a conversation, thought this girl was cute, and he said to her, like, why don't you stay a little bit longer when her friends were leaving? And, anyway, she said, well, I'll only stay if you have a drink with me, and he caved. So he lost and I won. And I ended up our bet premise was whoever lost had to buy the winner dinner anywhere in New York, and there was no budget.
Speaker 2:So thank god I did not lose because I, as a freelance writer I mean, New York is expensive as it is, but he is in finance. So I went a very expensive dinner. I think it was the bill was, like, $800 at the end of the day. And to this day, his name is Alejandro. He has not bet me anything ever again.
Speaker 2:But the good news is that he finally did accomplish a dry January. It took him a couple years. He wasn't trying for a couple years, but he he finally did it a couple years ago, and I'm very proud of him. I dedicated my book to him because would not be here today if he had, like, trumped it off and said, oh, I'm not doing this or, like, that's silly. I think having his camaraderie and definitely having some competition and a goal in mind was definitely motivating for me.
Speaker 2:So yeah. Thanks, Al.
Speaker 1:No. That's fun, and it's a fun story. And I wanna dig into, like I think you have views. Obviously, you do have views because you wrote, but you have views recommend to other people. But I wanna get into a little bit more of, like, your journey too.
Speaker 1:And so let's just say that you're relatable at that point because you've probably, in so many ways, grown from that first time. And I imagine it's a lot easier than it was before. But walk us through that 30 days, and what were some of the immediate benefits that made you rethink everything approached it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I will say that, like, a a huge thing that I noticed when I gave up alcohol was how how, like, prominent it is in every aspect of life. Like, I mean, the first day, I always say this was, like, my make or break moment, but the January 1st, I went to brunch. It was 6 of us, and we sat down at a table and ordered. And I was like, I'm doing during January, and it was, like, my first real, like, challenge because the waiter came over with 6 complimentary shots of tequila, and it was either, like, I could take the shot of tequila and just, like, text my friend and be, like, oops.
Speaker 2:Just kidding. Like, I totally didn't mean what I said and, like, I was tipsy, or I could push it aside and say, okay, I'm sticking to this. And I did. That's what I did. I I handed it off to a friend.
Speaker 2:So I I think that, like, not even just that experience, but also just realizing that, like, every sign outside a bar, even in dry January is, like, dissing dry January. Or, people are always asking, like, why are you not drinking? Or, like, commercials that are coming on, or even in the subway, like, being different things that are alluding to, like, alcohol. It's just it's everywhere. So that was a big eye opening moment.
Speaker 2:In terms of benefit, I will say that I think the first huge benefit came along about, like, a week and a half in, like, 10 days. I noticed my sleep was a lot more, like, consistent and, like, it would less there were less interruptions. I would consistently wake up in the middle of the night, have really bad anxiety, and I noticed that my anxiety had subsided quite a bit. And I wasn't, like even if I wasn't drinking on a night, like, regularly, I would wake up in the middle of the night. But after consistently not drinking for, like, 10 days, I was actually, like, sleeping through the night and getting 8 hours of great sleep versus, like, 5 hours or 4 hours of, like, really poor sleep.
Speaker 2:So that was a huge one because sleep is so important and it affects everything, like our mood, our just energy, our focus. So, yeah, that was a big one.
Speaker 1:Did you find so to comment on those, that was my same experience and one that I hear over and over again. And I've said many times on the podcast here, like, number 1, your sleep, but it's not just the nights that you're drinking. It it will last several days and sometimes even longer depending on, your relationship and length and depth of time, drinking. But once you get through that, you realize how much it really was affected, not just on your drinking nights, but on your non drinking nights until you put a little bit of distance there, especially with one of these challenges, which is part of the reason I love them. And same with the anxiety, that'll hang around.
Speaker 1:It's our Oh, yeah. Everybody thinks it's just the hangover anxiety, but that can last for a day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Also, like, the more I feel like it's kind of like this domino effect. Right? Like, even if you are totally like, you didn't embarrass yourself, you didn't say anything silly, like, during a night out, like, you might still have these, like, fears or, like, paranoia of, like, oh my gosh. What did I do?
Speaker 2:What did I say? And then that can just, again, like, domino effect, like, translate into, like, your relationships, like, elsewhere. And I think affect, like, your confidence in, like, who you are and, like, you know, what you're doing and that sort of thing. So, yeah, there's there were just so many benefits. It's really, like, hard to really name them all because I think I've also noticed them at, like, different times where I was like, okay.
Speaker 2:Like, but the 1st year, it was really about, like, my sleep and my skin and that sort of thing. And then another year, it was about, like, just really focusing on, like, how I was spending my time and, like, who I was spending my time with. And, I think it's like Yeah. An evolution.
Speaker 1:For sure. And it's not the same experience for everybody. Some people are anticipating feeling great and all these positive immediate benefits. And, unfortunately, not everybody experiences that, which could be really demoralizing and which is important why people should listen and read and educate themselves to know that this is just a temporary transition that you're going through and that the alcohol is, like, very personal that you when you change it, you're gonna have different outcomes based on who you are. Unfortunately, the outcome is gonna be personal as well.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious to know you work a lot with the challenges. So when people, especially this time of year, are thinking about drinking less, what are some factors that they should consider or keep in mind when they're looking at options? Things like going dry or sober, curious, or whatever label moderating, mindful drinking, or doing challenges. How do you approach that?
Speaker 2:I think it's really important to have a support system. It doesn't need to be, like, 10 people. It can be one person. For me, like, that was my friend. And you you don't have to make a bet.
Speaker 2:I think if it motivates you and it keeps you honest, then, like, you should do that. But I think it's really important because despite the fact that he lost and he still was continuing to support my journey and still does that today, and I think it's, like, great because you can talk to somebody who understands, like, what it is that you're doing and, like, why you're doing it. I mean, for me, it was for a vet. Like, I didn't really know what was gonna come out of this. But truthfully, like, we could come he and I could complain to each other when we were having, like, terrible experiences or, like, vent and, like, really even when we were feeling great or we were like, well, this is getting easier.
Speaker 2:It was wonderful to have somebody who who wasn't, like like, negative about, like, my experiences or trying to convince me otherwise. They were just kind of in it with me. So I think, like, having a friend or family member who is going to be nonjudgmental and really, like, uplifting is really important. I also am, like, a very big advocate for nonalcoholic beverages. I know that for some, that is an option.
Speaker 2:It can be triggering, but certainly if it's not, I there are so many great ones, including, like, and Migneto alcohol removed wines. They're sparkling. They're so good. They're tasty. They, like, honestly, taste like the real thing, and you just walk away without hangover or any regret.
Speaker 2:I'm a big fan of, like, ollipop. I always keep them in my fridge. You can, like, mix them with things and create mocktails or nonalcoholic cocktails, whatever you prefer to call them. Flue Air is a really great spirit brand that resembles a lot of other things. Like, they resemble rum or they resemble, mezcal, but, like, you can mix and, like, muddle and create your own thing.
Speaker 2:And, like, I think it's a lot of it is really about learning to enjoy yourself and make time for other things that are meaningful to you. And and if you still wanna enjoy something, like, in your hand and not sip water and have a more inclusive experience, I think, like, all of those things really contribute to having such a wonderful time. And I don't know. That's my take on it at least. I think they're really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I like on the beverage side of things. And I love sparkling water. I love lime, but I, you know, you I don't drink soda, so I gotta find other things out there. There's one that it's escaping the name of the brand, but it's like this fermented pineapple drink.
Speaker 1:You can find it in, like, Whole Foods, and it's kinda like almost like a kombucha. So when you pour it out, it's cloudy. It almost looks like a blue moon. Yeah. It has texture to it.
Speaker 1:It's like so I I enjoy that. It's almost like if we're gonna barbecue or do something, I like pouring something like that. I think that's a great substitute or a way to reward yourself. You don't just have to do sell certain water all the time.
Speaker 2:Totally. There's also I don't know if you've heard of this brand. It's called Free Spirits. Like, they make canned cocktails that are really good. There's, like, the Kentucky Mule that they have.
Speaker 2:It's awesome. And, yeah, there's now, like, websites, like, bet I don't know if better road.com, but they have so many different options that are nonalcoholic, and they even have, like, little almost like starter packs and, like, different, like, vibes. So if, like, you're a wine person, like, you can get nonalcohol like, a nonalcoholic wine package or, like, a cocktail package or, like, whatever it is. So, yeah, I I definitely recommend trying nonalcoholic options.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So I'm curious to know. So you wrote the book, going dry, a workbook, and the dry challenge.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So, obviously, you have philosophies around that and strategies. And right now, there are lots of different approaches to this. There's driest January. There's, of course, going dry. There's some people do longer challenges, and there's just variations.
Speaker 1:Now people are, I guess, a California sober Yeah. Version of it. And so I always like to get everybody's take. So what's your take on doing the challenges or going dry? And, like, why did you write it?
Speaker 1:What did what were the benefits? Is this, like, something that you put yourself in check a little bit and reset and plan for the coming year, month, quarter, or whatever? Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. True I mean, truly, like, my my first dry January in 2017 really set the scene for the dry challenge, which came out in 2020. I think that the dry challenge was really what I could have used to do at the time. And I think going dry is as well. I mean, the dry challenge is really it explores all these things that you can really do to occupy your time and still be social and still have, like, a really fun, full life, without booze.
Speaker 2:And it has great tips, like taking a lead on making plans instead of leaving it up to somebody else so that you're the person who knows what the venue offers or you're coordinating, like, going bowling with your friends, which obviously there's alcohol there, but it's not alcohol centric. It's not like going to a bar where, like, that is the main event. And so I think it's kind of like the advice, the tips, and all of the tricks that I could have used, but instead learned firsthand. The I don't wanna say the hard way, but, like, kind of the hard way. And going dry is really an extension of that, and it's more about the reader so that, like, whoever's reading it can jot down notes and really, take inventory of how they're feeling and, like, what this month or month, like, what it, like, accounts for.
Speaker 2:Because I think for me, have I not been constantly talking about my experiences and the benefits and the differences? I think it's so easy to say, like, yeah. I felt better. Or, like, some people will say, like, yeah. Like, it was fine.
Speaker 2:Like, this happened. But if you were taking notes every single day and you're saying to yourself, like, okay. Today, like, I was in a really great mood for absolutely no reason at all, and the weather was terrible, and the sunset at 4 PM. And you know what I mean? Like, you're acknowledging and you're recording.
Speaker 2:I think that looking back on those things can really show the change over time instead of just saying, like, yeah, I guess it felt better, which is such a general statement and not really full of details of all of those changes along the way.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I'm a huge advocate of doing journaling in in the morning every day. I I mean, it's if you asked me 5 years ago to journal, I would have said, no. That's not for me. But when I started doing it, I mean, I won't go anywhere without it, and I do it every day.
Speaker 1:And one of the benefits is not just in the now, but like you said, that you can go back and it's so funny. You look at yourself and you you see the growth or you just think, I didn't really know what I was doing at that point. Yeah. The way you can recognize patterns too. You can also say, like, every time I put a journal entry in here, this is when I have the most challenges, and there's an actual pattern of what was going on in my life that's making it more difficult.
Speaker 2:Totally. I think that there are so many ways in which people I this is kind of off topic. There's so many ways in which people, like, will change everything else around them except for alcohol. So, for example, like, I know some friends and who have, like, give up gluten. They give up dairy.
Speaker 2:They give up all these things. Right? And then they're having these they're having anxiety, and they're having, like, physical health issues. And, of course, like, if you need to be gluten free, if you need to be dairy free, like, I have done that in the past as well. And there's always, like, research and stuff behind that.
Speaker 2:But it's funny to me that the second that I I will suggest, like, how about you give up alcohol for, like, a month? People are like, no. It's not the alcohol. I'm like, well, you should try it. Like so anyway, my point being is that, like, I think that taking notes on what you're consuming, regardless if it's whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Like, if it's sugar, if it's dairy, if it's gluten, if it's meat, if it's whatever it is, like, alcohol included. Like, it it definitely needs to be one of those factors that people are are taking into account because it does have so many different effects that people aren't aware of until they give it up for a certain amount of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You you definitely do. I mean, I remember thinking to myself not knowing what I didn't know and then experiencing the benefits and thinking to myself, why didn't I do this sooner? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and one of the things to to that point where you said is, like, a lot of people like to cite, oh, well, I'm not gonna be as social and, like, I don't wanna miss out, but I can't think anything that's more antisocial than going through anxiety most of your day and not wanting to see people because of the night before. Because I know I experienced that. Like, I'd be in the grocery store or whatever, and I'll be like, I really hope I don't see anybody right now. And then I thought that's like the opposite of being social. Even if I'm only social for 2, 3 hours or whatever time that I'm out in an event or going to the bar or whatever, but then, like, the next day for 12 hours or even longer, I'm gonna be less more in my shell than I normally would be.
Speaker 1:It actually doesn't make me social at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I think like people use alcohol as like a quote unquote tool to socialize. But in reality, I think that, like, if you're going to a bar or any place where people are gathering, typically, like, people are there to be social. Like, it's not so much of, like, what you're consuming. It's more of, like, the environment and what you put yourself in.
Speaker 2:So to your point, like, you're not gonna be hungover and spending time outside, like, in large groups of people. I think you just, like, you go to places where people are looking to make friends and chitchat. Like, that's what you'll find. So
Speaker 1:Yeah. And, of course, I'm not saying not to have drinks. I mean, we're here talking about mindful drinking and moderation and, like, I'm just saying that because in between or cutting back or cutting the days doesn't mean that you're cutting ability that you have. Totally. So I'm also curious to dig into a little bit when you're doing these challenges or when you were writing the book, do you think that especially the going dry, how important is it to get to this why you're actually doing this in the first place?
Speaker 2:It's interesting. Like, I I don't know that you need a why. I think it it can be motivating. Right? Like, I guess at the time my why was like, I need to win.
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 2:can't lose that because I that's embarrassing for me. I can't lose to my friend. I'm an Aries, so I'm super stubborn and like it's not happening. And also like, that's a lot of money that's for that's up for dinner. So, like, that, I guess, was my why, but I really didn't have an example of, like, to give to people.
Speaker 2:And they were like, well, you're gonna drink on February 1st. Like, what's the point? And I didn't have, like, an answer because I wasn't saying to them, like, oh, I'm trying to, like, lose weight or, like, get more sleep or clear my skin or whatever. I was just, I wanna see what happens. And so I think you can absolutely have a goal at bind, like any of those things that I just mentioned, or you can say to yourself, like, I'm just curious how this is gonna change me if at all.
Speaker 2:And maybe it will, and maybe it won't. Right? But, like, let's see. Like, let's take a test. I think, like, when the past, like, even before I wrote this book and before I had done Enjoy January, I had written a couple articles about 30 day challenges in fitness and watched how it, like, changed my mood or my body or my schedule or just how I really, like, moved through the world.
Speaker 2:And so I think just being so much more aware of how 30 days is just, like, a great amount of time, at least for me, 31 days in this case, to evaluate, like, what was and what is and what could be, like, worked for me. So, yeah, it's a long way of saying, like, you can have a why, but you don't need 1.
Speaker 1:No. That's great. I mean, it it doesn't have to be all deep all the time, like you said. I mean, just not to lose, got you the answer in the end that was the most beneficial to your life, and obviously, it's been impactful. So Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think I I think I have an idea how you'll answer this, but let's end with a with a good question for anybody that's listening. Like, let's say that they're, they've cut back, and they're they've maybe even done dry as January, and they're thinking about maybe just going all the way in and taking January off. What advice would you give to those people if they're on the fence on whether or not to do it?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Do it. Like, it's 31 days of your life, and then, like, you can decide after that. I mean, I think that in the grand scheme of thing is there's so much to benefit and, like, so much opportunity there. I think there's a real like, it can be challenging.
Speaker 2:You can also feel really accomplished in the end. And I think especially because dry January has become such this, like, big fan out on, I know people might, like, roll their eyes and say, like, this is so silly for a variety of reason, but it almost, like, lends itself to be an excuse. Right? So if somebody's like, why aren't you drinking? It's January.
Speaker 2:You can easily just be like, it's dry January. Like, I'm doing this now because it's not as taboo as it used to be. And certainly, like, not drinking in general is, like, so much less taboo than it used to be. Like, people oh my gosh. People would ask me the most invasive questions.
Speaker 2:They'd be like, are you sick? Are you an alcoholic? Are you pregnant? And I'd feel like, I literally just met you 5 minutes ago. Like, why do you think that's appropriate?
Speaker 2:And I think that people now are a lot more, like, aware of the things they say and a lot more careful and and not just, like, nicer. So, yeah, I would just use the month of January to your advantage and just say, like, doing for January, as cliche as that sounds. And go
Speaker 1:I love that because just do it. Why not? It's only a month. What do you have to lose? And I love that people I mean, so programmed as a society around alcohol that it'd be alright to ask those questions in somebody's mind.
Speaker 1:And luckily, people are realizing that, oh, I don't need to have it's not just normal drinker, alcoholic. And if you're in between other than some of the excuses that you said, why wouldn't you be drinking? I'm glad that's shifting now. So Yeah. So thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 1:This has been an awesome episode. If anybody wants to learn more about your book or what your new projects are, where can we send them?
Speaker 2:You can check out my Instagram at hillary, h I l a r y, rights n y. Or my website, goingdry.coandhillarysheinbaum.com.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thanks so much, Hillary. That wraps up our conversation with Hillary Sheinbaum on setting the right goals for your drinking journey. Huge thanks to Hillary for sharing her insights and personal experiences to help us find a path that fits. If today's episode inspired you to start your mindful drinking journey, head over to sunnyside.co for a free 15 day trial.
Speaker 1:Be sure to follow the show so you don't miss our next episode where Hillary will be back to discuss how to anticipate challenges and build resilience along the way. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at join sunny side for more tips and inspiration. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode as we continue our journey toward a more mindful life.
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