Is Naltrexone right for you? Learn all about Sunnyside Med w/ Nick Allen , CEO of Sunnyside
Today I'm sitting down with Nick Allen, CEO of Sunnyside, for an important conversation about a new direction in alcohol health. For years, medication has been seen as a last resort for people at rock bottom. But what we're seeing now is that it can play a role much earlier as both a preventative step and a corrective tool, helping people build a healthier relationship with alcohol. A quick note before we jump in: in: We'll be talking about medication. It's generally safe but can have side effects, and nothing here should be taken as medical advice.
Speaker 1:For more details, check the podcast description or visit joinsunnysidemed.com. Alright. Should we do this? Alright. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Nick, thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be back.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's gonna be a fun conversation. And, you know, if anybody hasn't listened to the last one, it's great, you should go listen to it. But if anybody is brand new and hasn't and heard Nick's story, why don't you share a little bit of that story and how Sunnyside got started?
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy to. So I'm Nick Allen, I'm co founder and CEO of Sunnyside. Sunnyside's mission is to help anyone who regularly drinks alcohol live a healthier and happier life. We want to change the way that the world drinks by building healthier habits and awareness about alcohol in the context of balance in terms of aligning with your overall health goals. I built Sunnyside after my own lived experience.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a household with two parents who are now in recovery from alcohol overuse and I of experienced both sides of that coin as a kid. Parents who didn't have their drinking under control ultimately kind of had that rock bottom moment and then faithfully found their way to kind of a healthier path for them, which in their case was complete sobriety. For me, as I kind of started to explore my own relationship with alcohol as a teenager and then kind of growing up, going to a pretty heavy drinking college and even post college, I found that I too had a lot of those same tendencies that my parents did where when I had that first drink it was kind of hard to say no to the next one and two became three, three became five, five became 10 pretty quickly. And So I knew that I kind of had that same tendency, let's call it, as my parents did when I was starting to approach my own drinking. Up until this point though, sobriety has never really felt like the right path for me.
Speaker 2:Complete zero and this idea of total abstinence is not something that's been appealing, at least as of yet in my life, and so I wanted to find something that supported the lifestyle that I wanted to live, which is thinking about alcohol in context of balance of my overall life and health goals. And when I searched and looked out in the world, I found that there wasn't much out there. There were a bunch of apps and services and programs focused on helping the problem drinker on the path to complete sobriety, but virtually nothing out there for those who are looking to manage alcohol in the context of their health, but not necessarily cut down to complete zero. And so that was kind of the light bulb moment that led to the founding of Sunnyside five years ago. And fast forward five years and now we've got tens of thousands of people that we've over half a million people that we've helped in kind of changing their drinking habits and are really kind of living this mission of changing the way the world drinks alcohol.
Speaker 2:It's such a great story.
Speaker 1:And, I mean, you know what makes a great story is one that's relatable because I think anybody listening here, first of all, can identify with one turned into two, two turned into what the hell happened last night. That's I mean. That's right. Mean, anybody that drinks alcohol, we already know, like, alcohol is an addictive substance. And just because by default, you're not programmed and you're with a, quote, unquote, lucky few that just doesn't have any sort of grip on you, and we all can relate because that's actually more normal than the other.
Speaker 1:And Mhmm. And I walked that path where you did where it's like, what are the options right now? Luckily, right now, hopefully, a lot of the people listening, they didn't have to go searching the same way that you and I did because there really wasn't that sort of option that was either all or nothing or gave you options that allowed you to define what your goals in of success would look like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we really believe that that's the key, right? There are as many paths on this journey as there are people who are kind of taking that first step, and Sunnyside is really built to meet folks where they are and help them to reach their unique goals when it comes to balancing alcohol in the context of their health. And for some people, complete sobriety is the path that they decide to choose and we totally respect and support that within the setting aside ecosystem, but there are many others who are just kind of not served by this idea that it's like completely binary and you have to either quit or do nothing. We're really built to help the people in the middle who are trying to find a path of managing drinking in the same way that we've learned to manage things like diet and exercise and even mindfulness as components of our proactive wellness routines. Something that we wait until it becomes a huge problem, and only then do we do something about it, which has kind of been the default up until this point.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So we got the baseline here. Everybody kind of knows who Nick is and who you what your mission is and that that's what we're talking about today, and that mission continues to evolve. And we have some exciting news to talk about today, but I want to preface the announcement and the and the new updates with that this is a conversation not just about announcements. This is a conversation around treatment and plans and outcomes that are even more exciting and possible.
Speaker 1:And so we're gonna work through that because this is gonna be a very informative interview between the two of us, and anybody listening is gonna walk away with great information that maybe they didn't know about before. So the first and exciting thing is that we're rolling out Sunnyside Med, and it's a very exciting direction for us. But to anybody that isn't familiar with it, how would you explain it to somebody hearing this for the first time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Sunnyside Med, I'm incredibly excited to be here and to kind of introduce this new program. Sunnyside Med builds on the proven track record that we have at Sunnyside in helping people change their relationship with alcohol. Up until this point, Sunnyside has been a digital experience where we've attacked the habit loop through tools and behavior change backed by neuroscience but really in this self guided context. With Sunnyside Med, we are adding to the mix the access for eligible members to doctor prescribed medication to help with alcohol cravings and to eliminate binge drinking. The Sunnyside Med gives members access to compounded naltrexone, which is the active ingredient in compounded naltrexone is FDA approved for more than thirty years to help manage alcohol cravings and reduce binge drinking without requiring complete abstinence.
Speaker 2:This is a medication that is dramatically under prescribed, and even awareness, I imagine as I say the word Naltrexone, many people are not aware that this exists. It's a pill that has a profound impact for folks who have had trouble controlling the role that alcohol plays in their lives up until this point. The way that it works is it kind of attacks the reward center of alcohol. It makes alcohol a little bit less enjoyable and therefore makes it a lot easier to have that one drink and say no to the next one and to start to kind of reprogram those automated habit loops that often lead us to drinking more than we intended. The thing about Naltrexone that's really interesting is that medication alone is not enough.
Speaker 2:Naltrexone is highly effective in changing the biochemical patterns and brain patterns that we have around alcohol, but it doesn't necessarily kind of give you the tools that you need to create sustained change in a world where you can take medication and then eventually wean yourself off of that medication. And so what Sunnyside Med brings to the table is behavior change, our proven behavior change system coupled with medication to provide an incredibly potent way to change drinking habits both for kind of the time being on medication but more importantly for the long term kind of lifestyle change that lasts for life. Now Trexanal mentioned is safe. It's non addictive. It can be taken for, you know, as long as you need to be on it to kind of break those ingrained patterns.
Speaker 2:But coupled with Sunnyside and the proven tools that we have and this kind of integrated app coaching and community experience, I believe we've created an entirely new paradigm for how we manage alcohol in the context of our health and are opening the doors to millions more people to access this medication that can be the extra nudge that you might need to kind of make the changes that you've been looking to achieve when it comes to drinking habits. So excited to unpack this more and to kind of explore a little bit more what the program offers and who it's built for, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let's jump into it because, you know, I can speak from experience. Early early on when I was trying to make adjustments, I did get a prescription for naltrexone, and it does what you just said. It sort of like it keeps you from chasing the dragon, so to speak. Like, when your brain says, oh, it feels so good.
Speaker 1:I want more. I want more. But, of course, we already know that, like, once you get a certain point, there isn't gonna be more. There's only gonna be negative. So it keeps you from going down that slippery slope.
Speaker 1:But what I did lack was any direction, directive on how to take the medication, no directive on how to think about it. I just sort of like tried to do an ad hoc on my own. And for that reason, it wasn't instrumental when I was early on trying to fight it out and figure it out on my own. Had I had that assistance, I definitely think that my outcome using that medication would have made my entire journey much easier. So, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what we're hearing. I think the key thing is that the way to think about this is Sunnyside provides scaffolding around the medication to allow folks to be as successful as possible, to get started on the right foot, to know what to do when it comes to daily dosage, to build into your daily routine, not just take the pill, but also take the pill and create some time to reflect and to think about your patterns so that you're internalizing the benefits versus expecting the medication to do all of the work on its own. This is not something that you kind of take the pill and all of a sudden everything is solved. It still requires some work. It gives a huge leg up when it comes to kind of managing alcohol and managing those cravings and managing those kind of that pull to the next street.
Speaker 2:But that's just the start of the work, right? It really comes down to as much behavior change in psychology as it did biochemical to make lasting sustained change. And Sunnyside Med kind of provides that scaffolding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that scaffolding is so important. I mean, if you just even think about it in terms of the maybe we're more familiar with, we already know about antidepressants. You can't just go and get an antidepressant taken and not do any counseling, not do any self work and just expect it to work on its own. I feel like it's in that same sort of category.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even in weight loss, mean, look with the massive adoption of GLP-1s over the last few years, what we see is that the medication alone is not enough in that context either. Lifestyle change is just as important not only during the period when you're taking that medication, but also when you're kind of starting to think about life post medication, you've got to build those tools and those habits and those new behavior loops to make sure that you don't bounce right back to where you were. And so the medication alone has been shown in research to reduce that bounce back behavior but especially when coupled with behavior change and integrated intervention, that's when you get the most effective results for the long term.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Know, Sunnyside has helped over a half a million people every single day in our Slack channel. I see the amazing feedback that we get from people using Sunnyside. The success stories blow me away over and over again. So what sparked the idea that with Sunnyside Med that like, what's what really got the ball rolling for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So mean, you mentioned, we have we we built Sunnyside Med on the learning of working with over half a million people over the course of the last five years. What we've seen is that we know that our behavior change program is proven to work. We've got third party research published that demonstrates the efficacy of the program as kind of a standalone as it's existed over the course of the last five years. But we've also always known that there's more work for us to do and that there are certainly some folks who could use just a little bit of an extra nudge in the right direction of their goals.
Speaker 2:We want to take willpower out of the equation as much as possible. We want to provide tools to enable people to change the way that they think around drinking. And yet we know that we're up against ingrained habits around alcohol that for many people have been built over the course of decades. So we're talking about people who, even if they have the best intention for wanting to change their habits, by no fault of their own, if there's a habit loop that's been so deeply ingrained that you don't even think about it, like that know, that queue trigger, trigger response kind of loop happened so quickly that it's very, very difficult to intervene and make a change, we now have a tool that makes it much, much more straightforward to tackle those loops and to provide that extra nudge for people that just need a little bit more than what the self guided system has been able to supply. So we kind of think about this, there's so many people who find themselves the entire spectrum of alcohol use who just need a bit more help, and and and that's really what kind of Sunnyside Med is is built to accomplish.
Speaker 2:That's an add on to the core Sunnyside membership, and it's a complementary experience and that we believe that the two pieces when kind of combined in a cohesive way create a one of a kind tool to help anyone who is struggling with alcohol reach their goals.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because, I mean, here, one of the reoccurring themes that we talk about is that this one size fits all approach that so many programs have and that so many people feel like they're boxed into. And Mhmm. We take that same constructive criticism inside our own house here. And so this is giving a not a one size fits all, that it gives other options for people that maybe feel like even though there's so much flexibility in the current offering that we have and provide, that it just might not be enough.
Speaker 1:So Mhmm. How do you feel that like, who is the person this was really designed for? Is there any one specific type of person that you have in mind?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, definitely. So when we look at kind of the alcohol use patterns in The US and really around the world, what we see is that there's about 28,000,000 people just in The US who are drinking enough alcohol to have an impact on short and long term health. And so that's about one in three US adults who are regularly drinking more than kind of the recommended guidelines when it comes to alcohol. Only a very small fraction of this population today are even aware of the fact that medication options exist for treating alcohol use, let alone getting access to prescriptions that could really help them reach their goals. And so we like to think that Sunnyside Medwell medication won't be for everyone and it's a preference thing if this is something that you want to explore.
Speaker 2:Only about two point five percent of people who are potentially good fits for this medication are currently getting medication. And so Sunnyside is built for the ninety seven point five percent of this twenty eight million person population who are not currently served by the options out there and or have not found a way to access the level of care that they can really use to profoundly change their drinking habits for good. And so we let know, we think about this too, aligned with kind of Sunnyside's overall philosophy. This isn't only for people that are, you know, severely dependent on alcohol. This isn't for only for people who feel like they're, you know, at or approaching rock bottom.
Speaker 2:We're building Sunnyside Med to provide a proactive and preventive access to medication before alcohol becomes this, you know, massive negative part of your story. You wanna make alcohol a smaller part of your story as soon as you start to have that inkling that you wanna make a change. And so Sunny Side Med is really built for anyone who feels they could use an extra nudge in the right direction regardless of where they are on the kind of spectrum of alcohol use and especially we are focused on helping people get started early. Today there's about a ten year gap between someone being kind of diagnosable with alcohol use dependence and actually getting treatment. In those ten years, challenges become more and more profound and it becomes harder and harder to pull yourself out of destructive drinking patterns the longer you wait to get help.
Speaker 2:And so we wanna create this welcoming, open front door for anyone to get the help that they need earlier, much, much earlier than ever before. And we've developed a very innovative kind of healthcare delivery protocol to help more people get access to medication earlier on in the dependence cycle. So what I would say is this is built for anyone who's had challenges changing their drinking habits on their own, is open to exploring a proven additional tool for kind of jump starting their progress and wants to have the scaffolding around the medication versus just kind of getting the pills and the doctor saying see you later, wants to have the scaffolding around the medication of community, of access to other people who are on the medication too and kind of exploring their own journeys, of peer support from people who have been there before and kind of are available via text message to provide that kind of one on one attention and care, and have kind of proven digital tools that help to rebuild the habits that you're breaking with the help of the medication. So this kind of holistic approach to the habit loop is something that I think we do uniquely well at Sunny Side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to dig into something you said there, because I think it's around mindset. And that is, historically, I think people believe that medication related to alcohol is reserved only for people with serious deep issues, and it's almost towards the last resort, you know, when recovery is necessary. Let's talk about how to change that mindset because what you're saying is let's get use of this medication before it becomes a serious problem.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. Yeah, mean, I think just when we take a step back and look at the way that we address alcohol in the context of our health today, I mean the system is entirely broken. The way that we treat alcohol, is entirely different from how we treat almost every other health condition, is it's reactive. We wait until it becomes a huge problem before we do something about it. That's like if you were looking at kind of like the obesity landscape and you said we were gonna wait until you got a diagnosis for diabetes before we started to focus on exercise and diet and lifestyle.
Speaker 2:It's how we treat alcohol today, we wait until you have this kind of rock bottom moment before we do something about it and that's just totally broken. Today the treatment landscape, because of this kind of reactive nature, is overly clinical, it's impersonal, it's cold, and it's not approachable. Folks are, it's really hard to have that first conversation with your doctor or your PCP and so therefore you push it out and you don't get the help that you need because this entire system is kind of built around stigma and a misunderstanding of kind of alcohol use as like a moral failing rather than biochemical challenge. Again, it's one size fits all. It's binary.
Speaker 2:You have a drinking problem and you need to go totally sober, and for many people that's just not an appealing reality and therefore they defer or don't get the level of care that they need. We built Fendyside Med to create an entirely new path that basically takes each of those broken components of the current way that we treat alcohol in our health and in our society and flip them on its head. And so the main thing that we're really focused on is proactive care. We want to help folks on the front lines of starting to think about drinking in the context of their health, not ten years later, not when it's become this huge issue. And with medication specifically, to answer your question, this medication is safe, it's proven effective, and there's no reason why it can't be prescribed for someone who is earlier on the spectrum of alcohol use and looking to make a proactive change.
Speaker 2:The misperceptions here abound and are also concentrated within the primary care population of doctors that typically not prescribe Naltrexone because they have not fully understood the benefit risk profile and how safe it is ultimately to get into the hands of folks who are feeling challenged with their drinking. So we give medication earlier is kind of a key part of our protocol and we trust you to kind of self identify as that need of wanting to kind of get help. It doesn't require rock bottom, it doesn't require intervention or rehab, it's about you having anything that you could use a little bit of extra help to make that change. We've built a system that is friendly and approachable. This is not cold and clinical.
Speaker 2:We have not sacrificed clinical rigor here, so we have an amazing care team. This is doctor prescribed medication and you're getting access only if eligible through a doctor review from a licensed clinician. But we're making a care experience that is friendly and on your terms, not that feels judgmental and stigmatized and cold, but that is welcoming and warm, very of akin to the Sunnyside brand overall. We focus on the science but we manage alcohol not as a moral failing, but rather a biochemical and kind of psychology based challenge that we can use the latest neuroscience, the latest in kind of behavior change and cognitive behavioral therapy, as well as the medications available to us to help people make a change and there's nothing to be ashamed of if medication is something you want to add here, The earlier you get started is something to celebrate because you're preventing kind of long term negative consequences that we know that alcohol overuse can bring if not managed. And it's accessible, it's discreet, it's 100% online, medication delivered discreetly through your door.
Speaker 2:It's an opportunity to get access in a way that doesn't require a face to face conversation with a doctor who maybe also treats your family and kind of has known you for decades. And focus on balance, It's not an abstinence only protocol. It's a moderation first protocol for folks that are looking to make a change but not necessarily cut alcohol out completely. And in all of these ways that we're kind of rethinking the way that we deliver care, I believe that that's allowing us to open the door to millions more people who could really benefit from medication coupled with proven behavior change, which has kind of been the cornerstone of the Study Center program up until this point.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I'm 100% with you. I mean, if you wanna draw comparisons, it's almost like if you think about many of us are starting to realize that our healthcare system is built around only treating you when you get sick. A lot of people are wanting to do functional medicine tests ahead of time so they can read for biomarkers so that they can detect things early and be proactive. And I think that this is exactly the same thing in an industry, as you said, which I 100% agree with, is just sort of backwards not up to the times and and needs people like Sunnyside and needs people to realize that it's we need to start thinking about it differently. And one of the things that I love about Sunnyside is that, like, nothing that is ever done here is done hastily.
Speaker 1:Like, everything like, to
Speaker 2:to
Speaker 1:a meticulous test and and check safety and make sure it works and, like, just name the I can't even name the list of things that go through before any idea makes it out into the world. So, like, timing seems right. Would you say that the timing really is that, hey. We've been in this space for a while. It's time we've seen what happens.
Speaker 1:We know what people want. Is that is that what the timing is here?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would say definitely so. One of the things I would say with this offering uniquely and especially is that this was really pulled out of us by members. So awareness about medication to treat alcohol is growing and we were finding that Sunnyside members were finding their way to Naltrexone and having amazing results in this self guided way of basically taking the medication and pairing it with Sunnyside with no real integration to speak of. We were hearing this more and more from our members, words like this is a game changer, this is like the boost that I finally needed to accelerate my progress with the program, this has been something that I finally got the courage to talk to my doctor after five years because it was so hard to build that up, and this signal was kind of growing within the population of people that were finding this medication and having amazing success with it.
Speaker 2:And so what we wanted to do was basically make those learnings available for as many people as possible within the SinaiSight ecosystem and reduce the barriers to getting medication while also creating an experience that actually brought the two systems together, medication plus the Sunny Side to improve behavior change programs, bringing those two things together so that they talk to each other and that they're cohesive and that the medication is not being taken in a vacuum, but we're actually kind of building that into the daily routines that we already have established with Sunny Side. And we believe that that's kind of an opportunity to provide kind of the most effective care in this space. At the at the macro level, the other thing that I think is really kind of pushing us forward as a tailwind is awareness about the impact of alcohol on our health has never been heightened. Right? We now know from, you know, numerous studies that alcohol impacts both our short term wellness as well as our long term health outcomes.
Speaker 2:And for some people, that knowledge has been enough to turn off drinking in their life. So we see the recent Gallup poll from a few weeks ago saying that fewer Americans are drinking than in any time in the last nine years that they've been running this poll. However, for the people that are still drinking, a lot of those folks have this awareness, they now understand that more clearly than ever before that alcohol has this impact on their short term health and their long term health outcomes, and yet the ingrained habits are are still too challenging to overcome on their own. So we've got higher than ever awareness, but still, you know, more than half of The US population drinking and not making the changes that they might want because breaking ingrained habits is really freaking hard. And I think that that creates this kind of, like, perfect storm moment for us to launch this offering into driven by more openness to exploring medication in this space in the same way we've learned to embrace medication for weight loss with GLP-1s.
Speaker 2:And all of these pieces kind of coming together makes for what we believe is a magical moment to completely revolutionize the way that we address alcohol in the context of our health and embrace medication as a tool in the toolkit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, I mean, sometimes it would be great to be in that category of the people that can just read a headline and decide to make the change.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1:But you know? But but let's also think about, like, you know McDonald's is bad. You know that sweets are bad. Like Right. All know these we know sugar's bad, but does that mean that that's gonna be enough for our day in our day to day lives, it's really hard to take a zoomed out view at what you're doing on a single day and relate it to the rest of your life and the outcome for that.
Speaker 1:So that's why we have things that we're discussing right here. And what I was gonna ask is around the neuroscience of this and the habits. And you specifically have talked about the habit loop and the combination, but why it's so important to pair Naltrexone with habit change programs like Sunnyside instead of using one on its own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so without going into too much of the geeky science of the habit loop in general, we think about habits in terms of of this loop. Right? So there's the cue, the environmental or internal kind of, you know, factor that kind of leads that starts and initiates a habit loop. There's the trigger, the kind of the internal action that kind of drives you to towards the response ultimately, which is the response that you kind of make to achieve a reward. Right?
Speaker 2:And so with each loop through this habit loop from cue to trigger to response to reward, you're reinforcing behaviors such that over time that cue leads directly to the response and actually doesn't even trigger your brain to actually kind of take the action, right? And that's when habits become automated, and the deeper and the more times you kind of are looped through that same loop, the more and more ingrained the habit becomes. And so what Naltrexone does from kind of a science standpoint, from a behavioral science standpoint in this language, is that ultimately it lessens the reward that you get from the response of having that drink. Right? And so that's only addressing that response reward side of the Haggot loop.
Speaker 2:Right? So now you may still have the same cue, the same trigger. You may still go for that first drink, but the reward that you're getting is just kind of less delightful. It's less fuzzy, and, therefore, you're kind of weakening half of half of the loop. So you're giving yourself an opportunity to break that kind of automated routine that starts from the queue.
Speaker 2:But if you're just taking medication and you're just attacking that response reward side, you're not actually addressing the core components that lead you into that response in the first place. And so when you think about Sunnyside Med, we are taking kind of a whole loop approach to helping folks change their habits. So medication attacks the reward, but the proven tools that we've built within the Sunnyside system are really focused on helping you recognize the cue trigger. So what are the things that are happening to your body? Maybe it's as simple as like, I end work and I'm seeking you know, transition into relaxation, and that trigger then is to kind of, you know, go and grab the bottle and and kinda pour the first glass of wine.
Speaker 2:With the Sunnyside program, we're helping you to identify cues and replace the trigger response. Right? And this is getting a little bit wonky. I understand. But ultimately speaking, what what we're talking about here is the digital tool, upfront planning, setting goals, you know, taking pauses between each dreams, tracking dreams, and engaging with the community.
Speaker 2:All of these tools are really helping to address replacing the kind of trigger responses, you know, what you're doing in response to the need to relax, in the case of this example, while we're weakening the reward on the other side. So as we hit each of the four pieces of this loop with different tools within the Sunny Side system, we are creating the best possible opportunities to replace that response reward section entirely with something new, so that that cue may never change, that environmental cue is not always something we can control, but everything that our body does and our minds do from that point forward are being reinvented. So the idea here is twelve months or twenty four months when you're just ready to kind of finish the medication or start to kind of ramp down the medication, you've completely replaced the underlying components of the automated routine that lead you into unhealthy habits around drinking. And then it becomes really easy to sustain those changes long term because you've replaced those core pieces with something much, much healthier. And so I think that yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a good idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then, I mean, that's kind of the beauty in it. One, which is a lot of people struggle, it's not saying resist. It's saying, hey. If that cue comes up, you can be aware of it, but you can continue on as you did before with mindfulness, of course.
Speaker 1:But, like, you know, 5PM hits, reach for the bottle, the reward is I feel relaxed, but you can indulge as usual. But because of the chemical reaction and not the flood of dopamine and everything else, you're not you're not wanting to overdo it. And but then also it has this other effect where the next day, you feel trust in yourself. You feel proud of yourself. Those are already proven to reinforce good habits in the habit loop, not just the So those it's cyclical as it goes around, and over time, that habit becomes a new habit, and you're not chasing that.
Speaker 1:That that that reward gets replaced by something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but this also doesn't just happen, right? It's not like you take a pill and all of a sudden you replace your whole So that's why the behavioral health pairing is so important here and why I think Sunnyside Medins is really unique in the market for that reason, Because as you make the reward of alcohol less alcohol in general less interesting, you know, now the key is to find things that give you a reward that are that is more aligned with kind of your long term goals. Right? Like, you know, with alcohol not being there, it almost creates a gap to fill with something healthier. And that might be as simple as going for a walk, just kind of getting your blood flowing, or reading a book, or doing something that having a cup of tea, right, kind of getting into that, you know, different type of response reward.
Speaker 2:That's how you kind of retrain that loop to be something that is reinforcing of your lifestyle goals, not ultimately counter to the health goals that you may have kind of established at the start of a week when willpower is high and you got kind of the best intentions to kind of jump in with.
Speaker 1:So walk us through, what's like more of the day to day experience for someone in Sunnyside Med?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we are building on top of a system that has been tried and tested by more than half a million people over the course of the last five years. And so what we're doing is we're basically layering medication, it's a daily pill, once daily pill, and we've got a bunch of daily routines that already exist within Sunnyside. And so the idea here is that we're basically we are layering medication into the daily routine and then ultimately kind of scaffolding that again with kind of behavior change tools and human connection to provide a really holistic approach to habit change in a way that feels supported and communal and not lonely as kind of changing drinking habits since historically been. And so you're engaging with the apps, you're accessing other members who are on the medication journey and having similar experiences and can be sounding boards and of Q and A and kind of all these types of things, not to mention just kind of helping you feel at the part of something. And then there are specific tools like medication tracking, like resources and education, and all the way down to kind of drink tracking and monitoring as well as kind of progress and analytics that really help to contextualize this daily act of, like, put the pill in your mouth to, you know, this much broader impact of recognize how your habits are changing.
Speaker 2:Right? And it can be a subtle change to start. So what we think is so important is, like, that first month on medication is really about trusting the process so that you can really see the profound results. It can be as quick as a week, but sometimes it takes a couple weeks, but really it's about twelve months from now, twenty four months from now where you're at. And the kind of daily routine and the daily loops that we've daily and weekly loops that we go within the course of Neoside products make it much easier to kind of focus on those small bite sized moments that ladder up into huge changes over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, everything you say there aligns with habit change. It doesn't happen overnight. It's consistency and and it doesn't have to be this giant leap. That's how you get to these giant leaps is by little changes consistent.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that's exactly how Sunnyside is entirely designed, It's a weekly planning loop and a daily mini game, right? And every day you're playing this game, restarts every day so if it doesn't go great one day, you've the next day to look forward to And over time, those days build into weeks, those weeks build build into months, those months build into years, and the journey becomes when you look back a year from from kind of starting the journey, the change is profound even though you're just really focused on that small immediate neck fat. It's very aligned with the Sunnyside program overall and medication just kind of supercharges the importance of those small kind of atomic steps building towards something really profound.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, taking steps towards a new basically a new you to becoming something that that's just who you are now. You know? That's the long
Speaker 2:term Right. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1:So we we talked about a lot of the history of it, the medication, the connection of medication and habits, and also the mindset shift on how to approach this as a proactive solution. But this isn't brand new to Sunnyside, this is brand new to the general Sunnyside audience. That doesn't mean that Sunnyside hasn't already rigorously tested and worked with its members using this medication. So let's do some of the cool stuff which is the early results or stories that stand out for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're seeing some amazing early results. We launched Sunny Side Med internally about three months ago to a batch of customers within the existing Sunnyside ecosystem and we are seeing profound impact at the population level. So seventy percent of people who have joined the Sunnyside Med program are seeing a reduction in drinks of more than 20% in the course of their first four weeks after medication delivery. And these are folks that have been with us for a long time, it's people who have made progress, maybe have stalled out a little bit and who decided to add medication, seeing like a new step change in their results, which is incredible. Even if you've already been on this journey of more mindful drinking, adding medication appears to kind of still help folks kind of take the next step if they may be stabilized or progress has slowed.
Speaker 2:In terms of quotes for your customers, this is the best part. Know, we're hearing folks just using words like game changer. It was the Sunnyside Med that made the difference. It gave me the edge I needed to say no. You'll find you have less scrapings for alcohol and not as much of an urge to binge I if you do have a just feel so much better not drinking all the time.
Speaker 2:Somehow my brain feels different. And I can't say enough good things about Sunnyside Med. It really is a game changer for me. Huge. So we're getting this type of story every single day.
Speaker 2:People that were stuck, that were having a hard time taking the next step, who have broken through with the combination of Sunnyside plus Sunnyside medication plus our compounded naltrexone. And, like, that's the thing that makes us know that this is ready for prime time and know that there are millions more people out in the world who could really benefit from what we built here. Just so excited to now watch this publicly and open the doors to anyone who's excited and feeling motivated to make a change that maybe they haven't been successful in making or sustaining on their own.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, somebody listening right now that might feel like they've been stumbling along or they feel flat where they are or they just boy, I just I could take whatever help I can get. This could be the game changer for somebody. I guarantee it's a game changer for somebody listening right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and it's easy to get started. Have join sunnysidemed.com as kind of the direct entry point for folks looking to jump in. You can also just go to sunnyside.co and find the med sign up link on our main homepage.
Speaker 2:We're really looking forward to welcoming, you know, first tens of thousands and then millions of people into an experience that we believe and that we've seen firsthand from the data can provide a profoundly different and effective path for those who struggle to do it on their own.
Speaker 1:Perfectly said. Well, Nick, this has been amazing. Thanks for coming on today and sharing all of this. Before we go, I'll give you, you know, the the stage for one last time if there's anything you wanted to leave us with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just that I'm so excited to introduce Sunnyside Med to the world. We'll have Ian coming on the podcast in a couple weeks. He's actually been taking the medication for about a year and a half now and he's had profound results himself, coupling medication with his own Sunnyside journey. So there's much more to share. Customer stories, members who are finding success where previously they struggled, folks who are joining new and making progress that they didn't think possible, that they haven't been able to see in decades.
Speaker 2:We're here to support your journey, whatever that may be, and we'll help you find the right program and the right fit to take that first step and the next step and the next step until you reach that the goal that, you know, maybe has eluded you or that you're just kind of realizing is something that you wanna change. So I'm I'm just so excited to open the doors and to create a welcoming entry point for anyone looking to to change their relationship with alcohol for good.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks so much, Nick. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thank you. Happy to be here.
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