Is Cutting Out Alcohol Completely Necessary for a Healthy Lifestyle? w/ Mark Sisson
Hey everyone, and welcome back to Journey to the Sunny Side. I'm Mike Hartenbrook, and today we're diving into a really interesting topic around alcohol. Specifically, is cutting back alcohol completely necessary for a healthy lifestyle? And who better to explore this than Mark Sison? Mark is the founder of Primal Kitchen and Payloova, a bestselling author, and the creator of Mark's Daily Apple.
Speaker 1:He's been a pioneer in the health and fitness world for decades, inspiring millions to live a healthier, more balanced life. Mark's known for maintaining peak health and fitness while still enjoying a glass of wine. So today we're going to explore how he strikes that balance. Can you live a healthy, vibrant life while still enjoying alcohol? Well, let's find out and jump right in with Mark Sison.
Speaker 1:Mark. Thanks for coming back on. I'm excited to have you on the show.
Speaker 2:Great to be here.
Speaker 1:Mark, we have kind of a hot topic. So what do you think is driving the recent trend around cutting back on alcohol, and how does it compare to other health trends that you've seen?
Speaker 2:Very good question. You know, like like I've seen so often in the health field that I have played in for the last forty five years, things come and go. The pendulum swings different directions. So there was a time when, fats were good for us in the thirties and forties, and then all of a sudden, fats were bad for us and making us fat and causing heart disease. And now fats are good for us again.
Speaker 2:So things, you know, go back and forth. I think we're seeing in the realm of, of heart disease that, you know, cholesterol is not necessarily, to be vilified and medicated out of existence. The cholesterol is one of the most important molecules in the body, and we need it. We need to so we should identify, you know, more of the nuances around what's going on with heart disease when you have high cholesterol, and whether or not, you know, that is the proximate cause of heart disease. So these things, these trends come and go for a long time.
Speaker 2:People engaged in marathon running because they thought that was a great way to lose weight. Well, after decades of of millions of people signing up to run a marathon and not losing weight, we realize exercise in general and and running in particular is not a good way to lose weight. In fact, it might be the opposite. In fact, I have an I have a new book coming out called born to walk, which basically rips the entire, running boom of the last fifty years apart as having been wholly inappropriate for most of the population. But I digress, Mike.
Speaker 2:So where so how where does that get us to alcohol? So, you know, the the latest pundits in the health space, and I think this has evolved out of the the biohacking community and some of the the more scientific minds that have taken up podcasting and are looking for, you know, what's the next level of of health that we can achieve by eliminating something entirely, have kind of put forth the message that any amount of alcohol, any amount of ethanol is is horrible for us and should be avoided. I don't agree with that. I I acknowledge that ethanol is a a toxic, element at certain levels, but so much of what we do on a day to day basis involves our ingesting toxins. It's just it's just one more toxin.
Speaker 2:Our body is kind of prepared to, deal with this. Our liver is is set up to be able to, handle alcohol, at at a reasonable rate. Does that mean that we should, because it's toxic in small doses or in large doses, should we should we not take in small doses? I mean, this is a very philosophical existential question for a lot of people. I see a lot of influencers just completely, going off alcohol and, you know, writing about it and documenting their experience, and I applaud them for doing that.
Speaker 2:I think it's it's a great way to have a, you know, a study of one and n equals one down that path and seeing how these people respond. In my case, you know, I have never been a huge consumer of alcohol. I got drunk maybe, you know, twice in my college days and realized that was not a good way to live my life. And if you remember the line from animal house where the dean says, to Pluto Butarski, you know, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life. But on the other hand, and I so I don't drink real, you know, spirits, liquor the way, the way a lot of my friends do, but I I love wine.
Speaker 2:And I'm a big fan of red wine, and I have two glasses of red wine literally every night and have done so for thirty five or forty years. My wife has never seen me drunk. My kids have never seen me drunk. It does I no. I don't get drunk with that amount of exposure.
Speaker 2:And then over the years, I've I've sort of, curated my wine intake to, no non sugar wine, low tannins, no additives. You know? So I'm drinking fermented grape juice. You know, these a lot of the fermented foods exist on a spectrum. So is, you know, apple cider that's been sitting around for a while, is that is that a no no if you're if you're trying to avoid alcohol?
Speaker 2:I mean, fermented apple cider has been a, you know, a, you know, popular drink for years and years. In the middle ages, they had mead, which was a sort of a honey based, alcohol. I think I could make an argument that that I choose to drink red wine with dinner. I really don't drink outside of a meal, and it becomes part of the the pageantry, the the, you know, the beauty of a of a dinner for me is to have a steak with a glass of wine or or whatever it is I'm eating with with a glass of wine or two. There, I could make an argument that the antioxidants in the wine are offsetting the heterocyclic amines from the steak I'm eating and and that eating them together is, you know, is a is a beneficial, way of doing this.
Speaker 2:I don't drink water with dinner. I don't like to dilute the pH of my stomach. Wine has a pH that's closer to that of the stomach than water. So I I can make all of these arguments of of the sort of the science behind this, but the at the end of the day, my my my recollection my my, you know, my interpretation of the science is such that if I were to give up drinking wine just because it's bad for me, a couple of things might happen. I might live, you know, two weeks longer at the end of my life.
Speaker 2:But is that it it are those extra two weeks or two months or whatever, worth denying myself the gustatory pleasure that I have when I enjoy my favorite meal of the day, which is dinner. Mind you, I only eat two meals a day. I eat a lunch because I feel like I need the the energy. I don't eat breakfast, so I wake up. I'm I start the day fast, and I work out fast.
Speaker 2:So when 01:00 rolls around, I have a lunch. Not impressive. It's not anything. It's almost perfunctory. Today, I had a can of tuna fish on a salad with some avocados.
Speaker 2:It was enjoyable, but it but it wasn't as enjoyable as my dinner is going to be. So for me, dinner is the is is the time of day when I am able to enjoy every bite I take, you know, to to relax, to hang out with my wife. Again, it's it's the it's the pageantry of it. It's it's the the beauty and the elegance of of, that simple meal and having a glass of wine that completes a picture for me that would not be the same if I said, oh, just on a on a whim, I'm going to, you know, not drink wine. And by the way, I I did go a year without drinking wine just to see if there was any noticeable change, and it wasn't.
Speaker 2:I just, you know, I just didn't enjoy my dinners as much. And, so I went back and, you know, now I drink mostly, and I'm sure you're familiar with dry farm wines. I drink mostly, wines that are curated from dry farm wines, and they they take very good care of me, and it's it's a great relationship. I could count on those wines being lower in alcohol, nonexistent in sugar, nonexistent in, additives, and, low in tannins. So there's not the histamine effect.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna I'm gonna argue that my two glasses of wine benefit me more than not drinking.
Speaker 1:I mean, everything that you said there, there's a lot to impact, but I would say that if there's one thing I took away is that you sort of are the picture of what moderation to an individual that knows what is a good level for them and chooses that and sticks to the parameters. And going back to your original question on the trending part, by the way, on the diets and everything, I'm taken back to when my mom was when the no fat, low fat was the fad, and she'd be like, oh, yeah. Red Vines, they don't have any fat, so it's okay. He's so, like, some of these things are so ridiculous. But going back to the trend of this, do you, you know, it makes sense.
Speaker 1:Like, you saying, if he took away the YouTube glasses of wine, it wasn't a marked difference and then somebody else said maybe potentially is writing about it is taking a a bottle away or whatever, of course, there's gonna be marked difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Again, I I I'm sort of creating my I'm I'm describing my experience, and, you know, I should have prefaced it, I guess. I think your audience already knows this that that, you know, the abuse of alcohol is one of the more horrible lifestyle afflictions that a person could engage in, and I've seen lives destroyed by it. So, you know, if you're somebody who's in AA, god bless you and keep up the great work. There are others of us I mean, I think people exist on a spectrum, and there are others of us who, you know, either either biochemically or psychologically, you know, know where the line is and are like, if I drink if I were to drink too much wine, I'd know it.
Speaker 2:I'd feel it, and I'd go, jeez. I better you know, I gotta cut myself off and start drinking water. And, but, you know, it's a subtle it's a subtle difference, but I'm so attuned to how I feel, because of the way I've cleaned up my life and my diet. Like, if I eat the wrong foods, I feel it. I know it.
Speaker 2:I've I've it it's a I experience the discomfort immediately, and it's it's the same way with alcohol. So, you know, there I think some people are, not attuned to how they feel and are unable to, in the moment, gauge, the level of participation or the level of content. I mean, I have I have friends who they have one glass of wine, then two glasses of wine, and they say that's gonna be it. And the next thing you know, there's been eight glasses of wine. And, you know, that's I don't I don't know how they do that.
Speaker 2:So, I I feel like certain things in moderation, if you are someone who knows how to handle that sort of situation, and it and if on balance, enhances your enjoyment of life and the pleasure of, a group of people or experiencing conversation over a glass of wine or or over dinner, Why would I just on the the black and white, acknowledgment that ethanol is toxic and any amount of it is bad for us, why would I go down that route? It just it's, it it doesn't it it doesn't appeal to me, and I want my life to be appealing.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's what a lot of people here wanna do is that I mean, everything either is is making us healthier or some sort of killing us in some way or another, and how we sort of approach it and moderate with that as made a goal. I mean, for you, you got to define what that looked like. You know, if it's two glasses in the evening or certain events, then you get to decide that. That's what a lot of Sunnyside is around is that we don't say how much is too much. People will say, how much is too much?
Speaker 1:You know? Is this too much? And it's like, does it feel like too much to you? And if it does, then maybe it is. And, you know, what would the ideal scenario look like?
Speaker 1:And it might look like something like yours, or it might look something different, less, or more to somebody else. And so I think, without downplaying the negative effects, of course, with, addiction and, you know, not responsible use. There's, yeah, horrible things that happen. But when it comes to somebody like, should I cut it out or not, you know, based on some of what's out there, which there's so much out there. You know, I'm in the industry, and it's it's getting a little hard to handle.
Speaker 1:There's so much bandwagon going on as far as, the alcohol.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what when I say, you know, the pendulum swings, you know, widely sometimes in the area of health, I think it's it's swinging way out there now. And look. There's I read that in Wall Street Journal the other day, there's a category of nonalcoholic beverages that is, growing, and I think that's amazing. So that's a great thing. I mean, you know, every once in a while, I'll have a glass of beer when it's really hot and I get a really cold beer.
Speaker 2:I actually order two beers. I order one with alcohol, and I order a nonalcoholic beer. And I mix them together, and I get, you know, two for the price of one. So
Speaker 1:A good idea, actually. I've never done that. Yeah. I've alternated, but I haven't done that.
Speaker 2:No. Try it because it doesn't you know? Anyway, it's a it's little bit beer. Little trip. It's a little trick.
Speaker 2:But, you know, so if if it's it's sort of funny, though. So the idea of spirits, nonalcoholic spirits, which are what some of these companies are making. So is it is it appealing to somebody who wishes they could have a drink, but now the closest they could come is a fake drink? Or it's almost like it's almost like the the fake meat companies. Right?
Speaker 2:Like Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger. If you're catering to a vegan crowd, why are you even making a meat? Vegans don't eat meat.
Speaker 1:I've asked myself this question too. You know? So why are you why are you making
Speaker 2:a meat product for vegans who say they don't wanna eat meat and they don't want anything bleeding? And if you're making a meatless product for meat eaters, most of them are gonna say, I'm I just wanna eat meat. I don't wanna you know, I'm not coming to Impossible Burger because I don't like my steak. I want I want my steak. So I'm I'm seeing some
Speaker 1:of these
Speaker 2:nonalcoholic, you know, and with a nonalcoholic beer, I mean, look, I I started a nonalcoholic beer company for Hot Minute in 1986, way ahead of its time when there was just, O'Douls and, anyway, there there were there were two nonalcoholic, and they tasted horrible. And I thought, well, this would be, you know, interesting. And now you you have companies like Athletic Brewing Company, and their IPA is, you know, indistinguishable. So I beer's a little bit different. I haven't tried any of the nonalcoholic wines.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to. I'm happy to try a nonalcoholic wine, mix it with my regular wine, you know, see if it gives me the same the same benefit. But, I don't know where I'm going with that except that, with these nonalcoholic spirits, it's it's an interesting thought process. Like, okay. So if I'm an ex drinker and now I'm drinking fake whiskey, you know, am I doing so because I miss drinking real whiskey, Or why don't I just have a freaking lemonade or an iced tea?
Speaker 1:I have some I have some insight to that. So and part of the reason is, I happened to interview Marcus Seyke, who's the CEO or don't know what his title is, but he's one of the founders at Ritual Zero, which is the biggest nonalcoholic spirits company. Yep. And before he confirmed what I already knew a little bit, which is a lot of it has to do with rich. So, like, you said the pageantry with your wine at night.
Speaker 1:Yep. It really comes down to, like I mean, most of the time, I don't drink, and I get bored with I don't drink soda. I don't drink sugary stuff. I get bored with soda water. So sometimes I look for alternatives, but I also like the rich I used to like the rich well, I had to buy a bottle of wine, but many times I'll I'll replace that with doing it for my wife who who would ask for a bottle of wine.
Speaker 1:So I get a little bit out of that. And I think the same thing is people like that they want to change the ingredient but not the ritual. Yeah. Okay. I get it.
Speaker 1:I get it. So I'm curious to know. So, you know, when we're talking about suicide and, moderation, sort of a harm reduction approach, which is to reduce your alcohol and not the all or nothing quit, many times that people are very it's a very polarizing topic, and some people have opinions like that doesn't work. And I know that you made some posts about what we've just been talking about. I did some research and found them, and I think there were a couple of them.
Speaker 1:And, like, there was some pushback. Why do you think that is, and what do you think maybe people misunderstood?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, look. People are free to say whatever they wanna say about any posts I make. Pushback could come from somebody who has made the choice to not drink and and is now, you know, rightfully defending that choice, as much for themselves as for other people. So there it may be, you know, there's a there's an there's an element of wanting to justify the decision that you made, by further, pushing back against people who are not making that decision. You know, it it's like I said, I I want to I wanna live long and drop dead.
Speaker 2:I wanna live a long life. Don't get me wrong. But as I said, if if on balance, my somehow giving up wine at my age now, if that gives me if that gets me an extra three years in the back end of my life. And by the way, I don't know how it how it would look. It this is so nuanced.
Speaker 2:My wife would say at some point that that my drinking wine I'm a type a, and so I my having a glass of wine at the end of the day takes the edge off. So I'm able to That's
Speaker 1:that's where I started. I was like, always, always on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so, you know, that for me is it's also a just reward for a tough day whether I whether it was tough or not, I made it tough. And to take the edge off and to unrelax and unwind and and and be present and, you know, all the things that, that I say I want. There's that aspect of it as well. And so you might even argue that I live longer.
Speaker 2:I might even argue that I'll live longer because because I don't have thirty five years of accumulated end of day stress that I just bypass with a quick dinner and a and a and a bowl of ice cream because I didn't have wine, so I may as well have ice cream. You know what? It's it's the all of these things, it's a life is a complex equation, and there's a lot of variables. And if you change one variable, it doesn't mean everything, you know, shifts to the left or right as a result of that. So, that's that's kinda what I'm looking at is it's there there are so many, reasons people do what they do.
Speaker 2:And goddamn, I'm gonna let hedonism be one of them. Right? I'm gonna let hedonism be a legitimate, you know, life kind of short term goal. Like, enjoy something on a regular basis once in a while. People say, well, you know, you gotta do something that scares you every day.
Speaker 2:Okay. So some people do the cold plunge and some people, you know, do public speaking or whatever. But, okay. Do something that scares you every day, but something that, you know, it feels good every day, that rewards you every day.
Speaker 1:What scares you?
Speaker 2:Oh, not much. I mean, I'm I'm old enough now to be able to say
Speaker 1:on the spot.
Speaker 2:No. No. No. I'm old enough to be able to say now. Like, literally, what like, what scares me is, like, I'm not afraid of death, for instance.
Speaker 2:I mean, every day I wake up, I'm like, today's the last day. Man, I've had a great life. I'm the only one who won't know it. So, you know, that's that's that.
Speaker 1:Tell me about that. Why aren't you afraid of death?
Speaker 2:I've always been okay with it more so recently. You know, I'm not religious, so I I have no I'm basically a a total atheist. So, you know, my take on life is, it is it exists when it exists. We're the really, really lucky beneficiary of millions of years of evolution of two strands of RNA in the primordial ooze with a propensity to replicate, and we've gotten to this this version of ourselves, which is pretty freaking cool. We have all these, things that we can do and all this sentient, consciousness and all of the all of the ways in which we can interact with, the world and with the universe.
Speaker 2:So let's take advantage of it every single day with the knowledge that when it's over, it's over, baby. You know? And people say, well, oh my god, Mark. Well, what about the effluent? What do think it's like when you're dead?
Speaker 2:I'm like, well, do you remember what it was like before you were born? It's pretty much like that. So that's, you know, that's my my my take. And with that, I have a tremendous amount of calm and and ease. Like, I don't I'm not you know, my fears are more like on behalf of my kids or, you know, are they gonna be happy?
Speaker 2:Are they gonna be, successful? Are my grandchildren gonna, you know, grow up too spoiled in a world that's already way too messed up for me to even calculate? You know, those are the sorts of fears I have, but I don't have any any other fear. Like, I'm set for life financially. I've got a, you know, beautiful wife that we've been together thirty seven years.
Speaker 2:You know, I had a pretty awesome life, so there's nothing for me to be afraid of.
Speaker 1:You know, you're talking about what makes you happy. You have your family. You have, you know, all this building, this life that you love, and part of that is community. And that's a big part of the primal lifestyle. And I think alcohol, obviously, is a big part of that with community and, you know, meeting people and spending time with one another.
Speaker 1:So how do you think that that plays into building stronger social bonds if you can do it in moderation?
Speaker 2:You know, there's a there's another great example. Yeah. I mean, I I have a social circle here of probably 15 really good friends. Maybe eight of them are close enough that we will travel around the world one or two times a year together for a week or two weeks at a time. Every one of them drinks.
Speaker 2:None of them drinks to excess. I don't think I don't think any of them are, you know, trying not to drink. I don't know. I couldn't predict how if one of them said I'm gonna stop drinking and that's, you know, that that's I'm just gonna try this, how that would affect affect it. But, again, we we sort of, you know, because we share that not just the love of wine.
Speaker 2:I mean, half these tour half these trips are wine tours too, you know, to go to to, vineyards in France and and and Italy. So, you know, we we do all appreciate good wine for sure. And that's part of the socialization. That's part of what you know, that's one of many look. We all enjoy working out, so nobody drinks to where they feel like not working out the next morning.
Speaker 2:Right? Everybody gets up early. That's that's maybe the definition of moderation as well. You know, we all work out or go on a hike or go on a bike ride or, you know, go into town. So so that social aspect of it is, again, one of a one variable in a complex equation, but, you know, it works in my crowd.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, there are so many studies around being social as part of the keys to longevity. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, well, if, you know, my next door neighbor is Dan Butner. You know Dan?
Speaker 1:No. I don't know Dan.
Speaker 2:You know the Blue Zones? Oh, yeah. Okay. So Dan's the Blue Zones guy. He wrote Oh, alright.
Speaker 2:Blue Zones. Yeah. You know, and he and I, while we're we we diametrically opposed on the consumption of meat, pretty much everything else we agree on. And he you know, he'll he'll say everybody in the Blue Zones, most people in the Blue Zones drink wine. Right?
Speaker 2:Those that live longer.
Speaker 1:And that actually came to mind when you were talking earlier.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So so, you know, it's weird that the actual fact that, you know, that ethanol is toxic doesn't demonstrate to me that in the right context in a, you know, in a wonderful glass of old grape juice, that it that it has such a negative connotation provided you consume it responsibly and know where the limit is. And so, you know, people would say, well, you know, cigarettes, for example, you live your whole life smoking cigarettes, your chances of getting, lung cancer increased by some factor. You know?
Speaker 2:And then you have in the blue zones people who smoke cigarettes their whole life. So where's the you know, so much of this is is unique to the individual. Yeah. And that's I always come back to, I'm the anti biohacker. I'm the anti quantified self.
Speaker 2:So I don't do the devices. I don't do the HRV and the sleep trackers and the, you know, the CGMs and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:I don't do that stuff.
Speaker 2:I say bad data is worse than no data, and a lot of these things give you bad data. So my metric really is how do you feel? That's really my main metric on a day to day basis is is how do you feel? Now some people would translate that as how's that working for you? Right?
Speaker 2:So if you're eating a shitty diet and you're not exercising, how's that working for you? How do you feel? You probably don't feel that good. But if you're eating well and exercising and controlling stress and sleeping, then it's probably working for you. And you probably feel pretty good, and you don't need a device to tell you that your sleep score last night was 82, but the night before, it was 88.
Speaker 2:What did you do differently? What did I do wrong? You know? I don't get into those weeds.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's part of the reason I like following you because it's just so much more practical, and, and that's just not something that I've been drawn to. I know that there's benefit. It's not gonna match for me, and it's just a little more along what you say. How do you feel? And what where do you just know that you you could improve?
Speaker 1:So Right. Well, I wanna end up on a fun note here, which would be you mentioned some of the wines he drinks. And and of course, in this episode, Mark is just sharing what works for him because and and also backing up, you know, that he actually gave it some thought here and he's got decades of health experience in miss, in this health and fitness world. So, Mark, what, what wives do you like and and why?
Speaker 2:So, my favorites are, Brunello di Molochino, Nebbiolos, Barolos, Super Tuscan. So I like you detect the theme there. I like Italian ones. I do not like California reds. I think they're too fat and thick and rich and heavy and chocolatey and leathery and and and cough syrupy, to a fault.
Speaker 2:And then they contain a lot of you know, there's a lot of sugar in them, and and so I've really stuck to, you know, these sort of European, mostly European wines. And, again, I can't speak highly enough about dry farm wines. You know, Todd has done a great job of building a company that they just I get a a case sent to me once a month. There's usually maybe two bottles that I'm not real thrilled about, but the other 10 are, like, great, like, better than any of the expensive California resident I might get. But, you know, just to to answer the question, I'm I'm a big fan of of the Italian the Italian grape.
Speaker 1:Nice. Well, I spent quite a bit of time in in Italy, but I was too young to appreciate any of the the wines other than the price was cheap. So Yeah. Hey. Before we go, I do wanna say you were in on a new project here outside of Primal Kitchen.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I've got a new shoe company. My my latest push is to is to improve the way the world moves, through walking. Company's called Peluva, p e l u v a. I have an example right here just to to do the show because I'm barefoot.
Speaker 2:Now I would rather always be barefoot, but this is our our latest shoe. It's a five toed shoe. So it's got five toe individual articulation. So it's it's it's wide, thin, flat, flexible. It's the most comfortable shoe you'll ever wear.
Speaker 2:It's better for your feet. So every time you you walk on any sort of uneven or rough surface, you feel the ground underneath, and it feels good. It feels like a foot massage. We're we're having a tremendous amount of success with, top athletes who are training in it. We've got my son plays golf in it and his case improved his game by by, like, six strokes.
Speaker 2:I mean, like, literally down from a 79 to a 70 Wow. Or whatever. I've got probably 20 people in my building, most of whom are women over the age of 60 who train exclusively in these shoes and find that their balance is better. The trainers are all, know, remarking that their Romanian deadlifts or their lunges or their squats are better. Their balance is better.
Speaker 2:Every reason to to try these out, we think it's gonna revolutionize footwear. You know, there it's been tried before. There was another company that defied toad shoe. I wore them for fifteen years. I just thought they were a little a little ugly, and, and I wanted to see a little bit more, cushion in them.
Speaker 2:So we created this company. It's called Peluva, p e l u v a, Peluva dot com. On Instagram, we're wear Peluva, w e a r, Peluva. Check us out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's awesome. And I know if there's anything I didn't know you were actually doing this, and then I saw in your signature and over our emails. I checked it out, and I was like, wow. Mark is always into something new.
Speaker 1:And if there's one thing I know that you always put out really high quality products Yeah. With a real reason behind creating them.
Speaker 2:Yes. Indeed.
Speaker 1:So, Mark, thanks so much for coming on today. It was awesome talking to you and for sharing your time and all your insights.
Speaker 2:My pleasure, Mike. Good to see you again. Okay.
Speaker 1:And that wraps up today's episode of Journey to the Sunnyside. A huge thanks to Mark Sison for sharing his insights on alcohol, balance, and how to enjoy life without sacrificing your health. For more on Mark, be sure to visit Mark's Daily Apple and check out his work with Primal Kitchen and Payloova, where you'll find plenty of resources on how to live a healthy and balanced life while still enjoying the things you love, like a good glass of wine. If today's conversation got you thinking about your own habits, head on over to sunnyside.co and take our three minute quiz for personalized insights. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at join sunnyside for more tips and inspiration.
Speaker 1:If you like what you heard, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on any future episodes. And until next time, keep taking those small steps towards a balanced, healthy life.
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