How Parents Can Show Up When Alcohol Enters the Picture w/ Joanna Lilley
Joanna, welcome back.
Speaker 2:I'm glad to be back.
Speaker 1:All right. Yesterday, loved our conversation. Today, we're going to carry it on into the parental perspective. And, you you work with youth. We're talking about age brackets around like 18 or high school years into the twenties where kind of that transition into becoming an adult.
Speaker 1:But you also work closely with parents. So what typically brings them to you?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm only chuckling because I'm thinking, yes, I do. Although the young adult is really the one that I'm spending the most of the time with, it's the parents that are usually reaching out to me first. And so to answer your question, I would say they usually are coming to me when they have exhausted a lot of their local resources or their network. And there's like, in addition to exhausting that network, they're also just concerned about their child. And so there is a, you know, honestly, it's like, I almost call it like the parent intuition or the gut feeling, like don't ignore it.
Speaker 2:Because in addition to if there are legal issues that are all of a sudden like starting to pop up or you're noticing like their life being impacted academically, socially, like whatever, don't let that get bad, Right? Like if you're like, oh, I see the writing on the wall. This could definitely like, this could escalate quite quickly. I would sit on that immediately and like do something about it, not wait.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, that's such a great point because you actually beat me to it a little I'm thinking, you know, probably a lot of the people that come to you are at their ropes end or they re like, they're really, like, a little bit further down the line. So you think that, you know, maybe how about even just engaging before there are any issues and just having a guidance, a guiding hand along the way in this transition from leaving the home into dealing with what are now adult things or semi adult things for their kids?
Speaker 2:Well, to piggyback off of the topic of what's normal from our conversation talking about young adults, I actually think the same thing goes with parents. And sometimes they are overly anxious and obviously rightly so. We're talking about this human that I created that I'm raising and I certainly hope launches into the world. And I want to see them not just thrive but survive. So there sometimes is this almost proactive response where they're like, I'm nervous, right?
Speaker 2:And should I let this play out or should I do something now? Like, should I intervene? And so again, and you're probably hearing this, I'm using a lot of like shaming language because there is judgment, there is concern, there's fear that parents are coming to me sometimes in the thick of it where it's like reactive, like, oh man, this is bad, but more so on the proactive or kind of like preliminary side where we're just identifying like, you know, do we need to be concerned? Is this normal? Do you see other clients like this?
Speaker 2:Should we be worried? Right? Like, they're seeking information and validation and direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, my kids currently, I have 14, 11, and five. And of course, they don't wanna do any kind of therapy, you know? And I have to say, hey, listen. Coaches need coaches.
Speaker 1:Therapists need therapists. Everybody gets better and everybody needs help, and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. You know? And so speaking of that, I wanna get your perspective. So my kids are younger, but my daughter's getting older.
Speaker 1:She's 14. Leading into the topic that we're talking about here with alcohol, when are some of the times and different conversations that parents can start thinking about to have with their kids possibly before the age group that were that you typically work with and leading into those, you know, all the way till they're out of of the house?
Speaker 2:I will
Speaker 1:That's a difficult question.
Speaker 2:It is a difficult It's a
Speaker 1:difficult question because I tried to answer it, and I really don't know what the right one is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Here's my response. Because, again, the clients that I work with when they are over the age of 18, there are more significant consequences that can play out. Here's an example, right? If a young person does not know their limits and they go off to college and they drink to the point of like actually ending up being hospitalized.
Speaker 2:But now they've never been hospitalized. Maybe they've never had a drinking experience like this. They're terrified and parents have no way to contact them because now they're in a hospital system, even if they're there for like twenty four hours. Why am I sharing this like drastic reactive situation when we're talking about the idea of like, when do we have these like earlier conversations? It's because the earlier we can have the conversations to plant the seed of every we have choices.
Speaker 2:Every moment is a choice, and we are making a decision. And you do need to pause and just educate yourself as a young person. So treating an adolescent like at some point in the next four years, dad, your daughter is going to be launching out into the world, whether she's going to college or not. Having the conversations or starting to have the conversations now open the door for future conversations for her to come to you and not feel judged, right? To be curious, to have a safe space to say, I'm concerned about X, Y, Z, or, Hey, I was approached by my friend, or, Hey, I witnessed something, something.
Speaker 2:And so it just gives you, as a parent, a safe you set yourself up as an expert and also as a safe space. And if you can't identify yourself as an expert or you don't want to, then if there is at least the safety and support that your child feels in coming to you, then you can connect them with an expert that might actually be, Hey, let's go learn about some of this stuff from somebody. But again, you've kind of created that pathway where they're going to be less resistant to the idea of meeting with a therapist or meeting with a coach because you've got that rapport and trust and relationship with them where they can kind of follow your lead.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, I'm going to kind of hit you with a little bit of my own questions here. As you're saying that, my mind got going. And some of the things I said. So obviously my kids are exposed to the topic of alcohol, but not in the way that most people would be.
Speaker 1:You know, most kids would be exposed by their parents drinking. My kids are exposed because they know the podcast that I do, the book that I've written, and a lot of the work that I do. So the topic gets asked about at times just simply because they hear the words or hear the discussions. I'm going to throw all these ideas. Sometimes I'm like, do I let them know, you know, I you know, how I was as a youth?
Speaker 1:Do I, you know, kinda guard that so that they don't use that as a license to dad did it so I can do it? Yeah. At the same time, most of the conversations I've had though so far with my older daughter has just basically been like, you know, if I can go back and talk, tell myself a little bit about it, it would be like, you're you're not missing out on anything if you you decide not to. But then I also make the point of someday you'll have the opportunity to make that decision. And honestly, it's like, I think it might set them up for more difficulty if you just like forbid this.
Speaker 1:And it's unrealistic as a human being to be like, they're not going to drink as a youth. And, you know, and some of that might build character. Other parts, as a dad, makes me worried for the risk, because there is. But like, so I'm always wondering, like, how do we approach this, like leading into high school? But the one thing that you said here, and I'm sorry if I'm rambling a bit.
Speaker 1:The one thing that you said here that I always want to set up, no matter how the conversations go, is that, hey, listen, if there's a problem or you're concerned, there's nothing that we can't figure out together, but we can't figure it out if I don't know about it. And so keeping that always in place for me regardless of whatever the conversation is of what what I'm kinda sticking to, but I'll let you critique me a little bit here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, and I think that's awesome that you have you have front loaded that, the door's open, and then the real proof in that trust and rapport is your consistency in how you show up. Right? So if something were to happen and, you know, she comes to you and you're like, oh my god. You know, like, if you have this, like, wild reaction and obviously, it's clearly driven by some sort of emotional reaction and response.
Speaker 2:And then the dust settles where you're like, oh, shoot, I didn't mean to do that. Like, love you. Thank you for coming to me. That initial reaction is going to close that door. And so I think it is the hardest thing for me to tell a parent, not just offer the door and extend the I'm always here, let me know.
Speaker 2:It's how you actually show up in those moments when your child does come to you is really gonna pave the path for their decision making and impulsivity in the future.
Speaker 1:I totally agree. And I luckily, I find myself not getting to, like I'm not, like, one of those very emotionally charged guys. I'm pretty subtle. And that literally there's probably very few things that my kids could do that would outdo what I did, so nothing shocked me. So I totally agree.
Speaker 1:I think that is. But what you know, on the on the flip side, what are you seeing as some of the common mistakes that well meaning parents do when they try to step in?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's twofold. The first one is you have to breathe. Like in the moment when, you know, we're talking about fairly high stress situations, like without being really specific, but we can just guess that what's playing out is like, oh, we have heightened emotions. In the moment, for like the sake of everybody and for you as a parent who's supposed to be turning on your logical and rational brain, you need to pause for a second. Like, literally pause, take a deep breath, count to three if you need to, and then respond rather than react.
Speaker 2:So if I can't emphasize that enough, respond, don't react. The other thing that's important, and you kind of hit the nail on the head earlier, is that there has to be a conversation. No conversation at all means that there is no opportunity for open communication, and it breeds secrecy, which that breeding of secrecy is oftentimes now we're living in the world where if parents aren't having conversations with their kid about whether or not you're oversharing or sharing your personal experiences, it's about education, period. Because if you're not talking to them, they're going online or they're asking their peers for information, and they may not be getting everything. So it's tremendously important for us not to say, Oh, we don't talk about it.
Speaker 2:Right? Like, that's a taboo topic. Drinking, sex, like all of it. Like, no, we have to actually talk about it because otherwise, we are your, you know, as your nuclear family, we're supposed to be your safest space. And if you can't feel comfortable talking to us about really intense topics, how the heck are you going to, like, feel comfortable as you are developing and becoming your own human?
Speaker 1:Very well said. So in those conversations, you were saying that I'm reminded of this is my own personal philosophy. Of course, some people might disagree with this, but I do believe in rules and follow through as a parent. Of course, that's gonna be kind of evaporating as they get older because that's just the nature of it. They're their own person.
Speaker 1:But I also think that like, you don't get your kids to do things by like, you know, authoritative kind of thing. It's more like aligning and being an ally, but at the same time not being their, quote unquote, one of the friends because then you lose, like, that's not what you are. You're a parent. Like, you know, how do parents, like, stay allies with their kids? Or not how do they, but, like, how do they think about staying allies with their their kids as they get around to adults without losing that parental, you know, stature by being one of their friends.
Speaker 1:You know what I
Speaker 2:mean? Yeah. They need to have a parent in their life. And what we're talking about is there has to be somebody that they look up to that has lived experience that can basically put the bumpers up in the bowling lane. Like, I am going to be the bumpers for you.
Speaker 2:Like, I know that you can roll a strike. That's great. And you have to stay in this lane. I don't know why I'm all about analogies today, but clearly that's what's playing out. I
Speaker 1:love it. Keep going. I mean,
Speaker 2:I think the important piece in all of this is like being a parent doesn't mean you can't be kind. You're also literally raising somebody that is becoming their own human being, which means they have their own thoughts, they have their own feelings, they do control the decisions that they make, but it can be within the safety and structure of an environment that you have created for them, which finds balance in like, I'm going to kindly raise you because I want you to be a good human and make good decisions. Again, good is relative and open to interpretation with how a family wants to define it. But more importantly, they need an adult in their life that will put those bumpers up. Because if not, then they have no safe adult to go to that can, you know, basically, like, guide them up to their place of transition where they need to now make values based decisions for themselves.
Speaker 1:Yes. So as you said kind, I am big time on being kind with your kids. You know, I think the business also, like I did a lot of business and study and management. I've had teams that I've managed, and I've always been like more on the kind and treat people fair because that's how people you're all part of a team together, working together. The lowest form of management would be authoritative, do as I say.
Speaker 1:That just doesn't work and it's lazy, to be honest. I guess some people would say it is, maybe Amazon and some of the other companies that work that way. But talking specifically around alcohol and with your kids and maybe you have some concern, where's the line between being kind and being an enabler?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think on the other end, my head goes to what feels like a firm boundary and what feels authoritative, right? It is hair thin on both ends of the spectrum. Kindness exists in the way we show up. Enabling is us doing something for somebody that they can do for themselves. And so I want to be really careful of being mindful of you can be kind and also not enable your child to make decisions.
Speaker 2:Kindness comes sometimes with direction and boundary and structure. You don't have to be I think kind of going back to your example, Mike, you don't have to be a parent that says, No, you can't do those things. And it can come across exactly how I just presented it. No, I'm saying no right now. And there is a reason that I'm making this decision and you can hate me in this moment, but I need you to follow my direction, right?
Speaker 2:I need you to listen to me in this moment versus a parent that is screaming at their child, obviously, or like just very angry because that's now a we're eliciting probably some generational trauma and an ongoing traumatic dynamic within the family system. And so it's just, look, you can be kind and also not enable.
Speaker 1:I think that's so well said. And you know what? I said it wrong saying kind instead of the nice guy. But I'm glad I did because you made such a better answer for you.
Speaker 2:All right. Cool.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, this has been a great episode. Why don't we leave with sort of like a general one, like give us a message for parents who maybe are worried or unsure about what to do, and maybe some first steps to either have a conversation with their child directly or some good places and resources to as a step one as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay, lots of things. I think the first thing in all of this is it's important for us to make sure that we are also not comparing our own child's journey to ours. And so when you say like, oh, you know, my child is experimenting like I used to, you have to remember that we're talking about a different person a different time. And so just read the room.
Speaker 2:Understand that sometimes it is okay to talk about your experience, but sometimes it's okay to say, this is a blank slate, and I want to look at this from like a place of curiosity and identify, is this quote unquote normal, right? Is this okay? Is this experimentation? Or is this going to, you know, basically this is gasoline on a bonfire and I need to be more attentive. So try not to compare your child's journey to your own in terms of any type of drinking.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I would throw out there is if you don't feel comfortable having a conversation with your child, then I'm going to put the mirror in front of the parent's face and say, go to the experts and learn how to have these conversations. So if you're not seeing a therapist or you want to work with a coach, figure out how to connect yourself with a resource that will help you better communicate openly with your child. And I'm not suggesting family therapy. Let me be clear in saying that. This is more of a like, as a parent, you can control how you communicate and invite those conversations with your child.
Speaker 2:If you don't feel comfortable because of a lack of understanding or confidence, seek out the resources for yourself so that you can get educated. And then the last piece is, like you were saying, the education side of things, like whether it's groups, whether it's community, whether it's education. I mean, honestly, you could even just look up what exists in your home community, right, in your town. Because chances are some organization, whether it's a counseling clinic or some sort of educational group that is doing parent supports or family education around drinking or substance use, because that's a lot of the work that they're trying to do is just educate, educate, educate. And so if you're not tapped into it, what better way to not just get connected to the educational resources, but also potentially find your people.
Speaker 1:So great. Those are all great action steps. But I will have to say, oh, man, isn't that the hard one to do with the comparing yourself at that time and age? I mean, I'm I'm constantly doing that. Whether I'm saying that out loud, most of the time it's just internal.
Speaker 1:But, you know, at my age, I did that. But I'm like, oh, man. What am I turning into here? Brother, Richard, such a good point, though. Like, I'm constantly reminding myself, like, these also sounding old, but it's not the same time.
Speaker 1:It it just isn't. Like Yeah. If if any of the the dumb things I did in my youth had had a phone recording me at that time, it would have been a lot different, whether it be just, like, getting massacred online by my peers or, like, getting into some sort of trouble or, like, just it it just isn't the same, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I think this is like the beauty of the developed brain now where we can reflect back on our previous, like, you know, emerging adult selves and go, wow, we're lucky we're alive or wow, we're lucky that, you know, phones didn't exist. And, That night wasn't recorded.
Speaker 2:And I think that is just, again, a part of the overall having a finger on the pulse of where your child is in the world that they're growing up in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Unfortunately, we just all have to find our own way, and there is no roadmap that says, This is normal. Get back on the trail. You just got to keep trailblazing. Alright.
Speaker 1:Joanna, thanks for coming on today. If anybody want is listening, wants to learn more about you or reach out, where they they do that?
Speaker 2:Best best way is to just land on my website, which is www.lilyconsulting.com, and that's Lily with an E Y.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, this was a fun conversation. Thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Thanks again for having me.
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