Epic Nights, Early Mornings: The Art of Mindful Drinking w/ Camille Vidal
Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, the podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and, of course, inspire your own mindful drinking journey. This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number 1 alcohol moderation platform. And if you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free 15 day trial. I'm your host, Mike Hardenbrook, published author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert. In this episode, we welcome Camille Vidal, founder of La Maison Wellness, that's a mouthful, to explore the world of mindful drinking.
Mike:Camille shares her journey from globally recognized bartender to mindfulness teacher and how she integrates mindful drinking into her lifestyle. We'll also discuss her philosophy on something called epic nights and early mornings for impactful teaching concepts like remove, reduce, replace and practical tips for enjoying alcohol free options. Join us to learn how to live better through mindful choices. Okay. Today, I have Cammy Vitale today.
Mike:Thanks for coming on the show, Cammy.
Camille:Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Mike:Definitely. So like every single episode, I did my research and I dug into your background a little bit, and I came across this quote that you said, and I wanna jump into it. And I wanna get into your background around mindful drinking and no and local, alcohol cocktails or mindful cocktails. But tell me about this, epic nights and early mornings.
Camille:Yeah. That's that's a good 1. 1 that I feel like we should stick on the t shirt and wear more often. Right. I think, I think that quote came about when I launched them is a wellness, my company, because everything and I still think that to these days, everything around mindful drinking moderation is a quite, boring and even more boring.
Camille:It's a bit of a negative language around it. It's about, you know, cutting down and cutting out and even just the term moderation. There's nothing less inspiring than the term moderation, I think. And so I wanted to show people that it wasn't about missing out, it wasn't about compromising, it wasn't about less, it was actually about more. It was about epic night and being able to stay out and have all the fun, but also wake up the day after feeling good and being able to wake up early in the morning with a with a clear mind and, and full of energy.
Camille:And so for me, that was the this epic night early morning was to show that lifestyle that it was about being able to do more, you know, the the glass half full rather than half empty even though it's it's analogy. It doesn't really work in mindful drinking, but it kind of does.
Mike:Depends on what you're drinking.
Camille:So Exactly.
Mike:Oh, you and I couldn't be more eye to eye on this. I think that, you know, the first thing people when they wanna make a change is, oh, I can't do this or I can't do that or I'm not gonna go to that party, but they don't focus on all the things that they gain. There's so much more gained. And I actually shot a video yesterday around how people say, oh, I can't go out because I'm not gonna be that social, and it makes me more social when I drink. But actually so in my experience, when I go out and have a couple drinks, yeah, of course, in that short period, it make me a little bit social.
Mike:The next day, I would have anxiety. My mood would be low. You know, you go to the store. You wanna make sure I hope I don't bump into anybody out here. It, like, for the whole day, it would make you not social.
Mike:So it actually was doing the opposite. And so, like, you gain that whole day back instead of focusing on, like, maybe maybe or maybe not, you will be less social or maybe you don't even enjoy, you know, that event anyways.
Camille:Absolutely. First of all, very good point. I think I've stayed at parties where I should have left way sooner for too long because I was drinking, you know. So first of all, you're reclining your time and time is so precious, you know. We we are here for a very short amount of time and I wanna make the most out of it.
Camille:And the most out of it for me isn't burning the candles at both ends. It's actually living my life in the way that feels good and staying at parties that are in for me, isn't a word you celebrate life, you know. So first that that point. But I also think that for me, it's even more beyond the waking up the day after not feeling great. And I really don't resonate with this idea that in order to have fun, we have to suffer the day after to compromise our well-being, to just wake up feeling rubbish.
Camille:That's our definition of having fun, and I just disagree with that. I actually think that that's that's BS. That's the lie. You know, we don't need to do this. But I also think that, like, even in the moment, even in the evening, like, even though we feel like it give us a bit of, like, that, you know, oomph or like that, like, little courage to be able to, like, feel ourself, to feel more liberated, and to feel to have the courage to like, you know, that Dutch courage or to be able to like feel more social.
Camille:I actually think that like that's again, it's a misconception. I felt the most empowered in my life when I when I become a mindful drinker because I felt very aligned with my authentic self. And I was showing up as myself because I wasn't hiding behind, you know, having, you know, 1, 2, 3 drinks. I wasn't, like, nothing was shifting. I was just being me.
Camille:And I think that's really empowering. And I actually think that this is creating opportunities for real, more meaningful connection with people, And that's the connection that I wanna have. Like, I think that actually I socialize way better and, you know, in the way that is way more authentic, way more meaningful, way more aligned with who I am and what I wanna do than when I was drinking too much. And I will also remembering half of my nights. None that was blacking out, but I was, you know, like, because I was never drinking that too too too too much.
Camille:But I was there was half of the evening that I wouldn't really really remember, you know, all the details and all the and I think that for me, great nights are meant to be remembered. Or what's what's the point of it? You know?
Mike:Yeah. So first of all, I think that it's almost like a cheat code. If you can go out and have fun and still wake up the next day and have that, plan in place that you already know you're gonna stick to and you wake up and you're feeling amazing and maybe, like, half the people or 3 fourths of the people, everybody else is just, like, their day is shot, and you have this next day going. Another thing that you said there, though, is, like, there's this misalignment. And so, like, I really think that, I can identify that.
Mike:So I never had a rock bottom moment. I never, like, you know, had, like, these on it was from all appearances. If anybody looked in it, it would look, hey. There's nothing going on here. But there was a misalignment in me.
Mike:Like, I had I was always waking up. I was always finishing my tasks. I was always working out. I was eating clean, and yet I had this thing that was, like, misaligned, and it really felt off key. So was that the starting point for you?
Mike:Let's go back to your mindful drinking journey because we all have this unique journey and unique insights, and so I wanna get into yours. What was so the starting point for me was the misalignment. What was the starting point for you?
Camille:Mine was actually quite big, not because I hit rock bottom. And I actually keep on saying to people, like, you don't have like, you don't need to hit rock bottom to become a mindful drinker. I think that, like, these we are definition of, you know, I I guess, out of balance relationship with alcohol is, you know, pouring vodka on your cornflakes in the morning or hiding bottles in your drawer, you know, and, like, that's that's 1 extreme and that's a really sad place to to find yourself in. But actually that's a small percentage of the population. I generally think that as a society that is drenched in alcohol, if we're honest, probably most of the population drinks just a little too much, you know, and that we don't realize and we don't have this awareness of what is our relationship with alcohol.
Camille:We never question it for so many different reason because alcohol is glamorized in society and in movies and media because we associate that with, like, fun and celebration because it feels like a treat and something that is nice. But again, it's like, who decided that? You know? Is this not the moment of connection? Is it not drinking something that is delicious that is actually creating this opportunity?
Camille:Then my question and what I'm challenging people, today is, does alcohol have to be part of the the equation? I don't think so. I actually don't think so. It can if we decide to in moderation and balance, that's a unique and personal decision. But I I don't buy into society, message of to have fun, you gotta drink.
Camille:You know? So for me, I guess what the the irony and and, is that I spend most of, like, my entire career in the drinks industry, in food and drinks. You know? I actually come from a very, artistic family. My, my father was an artist.
Camille:I grew up in in the theater. I grew up in the south of France. I went to an art school, and I was always searching for that way of, like, expressing my creativity. I did loads of different things, you know. And, and then when I finished, university, I had a a degree in actually marketing communication that I did after.
Camille:And, and I moved to Australia and I always work in hospitality, like, from the age where I was probably not even allowed to work in in restaurant. I was already working in restaurant and actually my dad, there was a bar in the theater and so I was, you know, I I learned how to open a bowl of wine at the before the age of 10. I learned how to pour proper pints. And so I was always surrounded in, like, in hospitality, but in a sense of, like, hospitality. There was always people around.
Camille:We will always invite people in our house. Celebration and that gathering and that that community sense of, like, hospitality. And I love that celebration and that gathering and that that community sense of community life. And so when I, when I moved to Australia, I kept on, you know, I kept on working in hospitality, but I actually started discovering more of the cocktail side of it. There's I landed in Melbourne and there's an incredible, cocktail community, Boston.
Camille:There's some really, really talented and really creative people. And so I started learning about cocktail, which I never really dab into before that. And the moment I put 1 foot before behind the bar and I start making drinks, I was like, Like, that was very much of like that moment when I was like, this is my way of being creative. Creating something that is delicious, that is beautiful, that tastes amazing, and that's create an experience for people. I love to look after people to, like, allow them to have this, like, amazing evening.
Camille:And so I did that. I bought in for a few years then I went on to more on the brand side. I became a global ambassador. And at that point, after years years years of being in the industry and being a bartender and then, an ambassador, I became a global ambassador. And my job was literally to jump from 1, you know, to, like, 1 plane to another, 1 cocktail bar to 1 restaurant.
Camille:And I remember having evenings of looking at my calendar and they're like, I don't even know which day, like, I cannot drink this week or this month. Like, I was like trying to to put a little asterisk of like on days where I could be not drinking alcohol because I was so busy because I was always going to visit some bars, visit some friends and all my life was, like, imbibe, you know, in this, like, completely, like, immersed into this this community and this industry and it was amazing and it was great and I loved that. But it was really exhausting physically, mentally, emotionally. You know, I was jet like. I was I was very much, burning the candle at both end.
Camille:And even though never in a way that was, like, big celebration, and I was working, for a brand that was like on the lower ABV side that was all about the art of the aperitif and the the southern Europe and the French culture of, like, slowing down and drink. So there was already sort of like a more mindful approach to it, but the nature of my job was really, intense, I guess. Even though on the paper, it looked like the dream job, you know? And it and it probably was for me for a while, but I needed to find balance. And so I started because I was traveling so much, it's not that I could really, like, sign up for, like, I don't know, a club or something that I could be part of.
Camille:And so I start practicing yoga and I I was already introduced to yoga by my mother when I was a teenager, but I was a teenager. And so I was like, no, mom. That's your thing, rolling my eyes. You know? Like Give
Mike:me give me some context. How old were you when you were this global ambassador?
Camille:I was in my twenties.
Mike:I
Camille:was in my twenties. Like, my for like, like, mid, late twenties, until until when? Until my early thirties. And so for me, I started to find yoga as a way to, like, create that balance. And it was great because I could practice in my hotel room.
Camille:I could land in the city and I will use an app to, like, find the the nearest yoga studio and I will go and practice there. And and it was a it was a practice that made me allowed me to really connect with myself, to check-in with with my body, with my mind, but also to feel like I was part of a community. We're all practicing the same practice, and and it really, really helped me, find that sense of, like, feeling more grounded and more connected. And then I start diving with, like, meditation. Then I became a yoga teacher myself because I really wanted to share this practice and share this knowledge with people in the industry.
Camille:And the more I was evolving and I was kind of like searching, you know, trying a bit of everything to find this balance in my life, I really started to question how we will not put the way that we drink in the full picture of our well-being. And for me actually, it's the missing piece of the puzzle in so many people's life. Not not only because it kind of like it would not only because it allowed you to feel to to feel empowered, to liberate yourself from these things that feels a bit heavy. Like, I really resonate with what you say of, you know, for me drinking just a little too much, not to the point that it was a real struggle and a problem that we will call that a problem. But just that little too much then that makes you feel a bit more tired and have a cloudy, you know, head the day after.
Camille:It's a bit like if you were running on a hot day with, like, a weighted vest. You know, that's like, you know, it's a bit during a life like this. You're like, why am I putting this, like, extra weight on myself? Like this, I'm just making life just a little harder for me. Like, this is just or something that is like holding your back just enough that, like, you can still move, but it's just a bit too much.
Camille:And I really see, like, drinking a bit constantly a bit a bit over as that that that weight that is like holding you back. And also think that it's getting in the way of so many other things because we know that's that alcohol, even the smallest amount of alcohol will affect your sleep, like, straight away. We know that sleep is the foundation of actually being able to thrive and being able to feel good. We also know that, like, when you drink a bit to, you know, a bit of, and I'm talking about, like, sometime it can be just a couple of, like, glasses of wine in the evening that you wake up the day after and you just have a bit of a cloudy mind when you want to have, like, that clarity and you wanna feel like excited and be able to like tackle all those dreams and hopes that you have for for yourself. And and so I think that like for all those reasons like it will it just like get in the way of like because you have less energy then you will end up moving your body less.
Camille:You don't really wanna go to the gym or you don't really wanna go for a run because you just don't really feel like it and it just gets a bit in the way. And then even for like your eating habits like you we know that like alcohol impacts gut health and that it will disturb the balance of the good and the bad bacteria into your digestive system. And which means that like over time you gonna be leaning more towards those unhealthy food because you feel like you're craving this because you also want that pick me up that sugar, that fatty, you know, that things that's gonna like bring your back to like level up. And so I just think that like, for me, it's that missing piece of the puzzle for that reason because it's linked to everything in your life. And so I started to become more aware of that.
Camille:And as, someone who is, very much all in in life on how I do things, I was like, I'm gonna take a big turn, you know, and I left my big job. I was Hold on.
Mike:Before, I wanna ask you something here because you mentioned I want you mentioned the the and I love this story. You mentioned the yoga, the meditation. And the reason I wanna bring this up is because I've been thinking about this, like, analogy. We're in San Diego right now, and there's a surf and there's riptides, you know, and they get if you get in a riptide, you know, most people struggle against it. Resist, resist, resist.
Mike:But those are the people that end up drowning. But if you indirectly move out of it, then you kind of, like, get yourself in the clear and save yourself. And I started thinking in terms of this analogy that everybody tries to resist alcohol, but they might start doing other things in their lives that are indirectly going to impact that in a positive way. Do you think that that was, like, the catalyst for you starting to move in that direction with the meditation and the yoga?
Camille:Yeah. 100%. And actually, the number 1 thing that I recommend to people is not to reduce the alcohol intake, is to incorporate alcohol free option, to start looking after themselves. Because as you incorporate alcohol free option, you will realize that at the end of the day, at the end of the week, at the end of the month, you are consuming less alcohol. For me, it's all about integrating those practices, learning, you know, having the self awareness to understand what is your relationship with alcohol, first of all, is the first step.
Camille:But if you realize that actually you use alcohol because you feel like that you don't have enough self confidence when you go out, there's other practices that you can do. Like, I'm launching my mindful drinking program starting on Monday here for alcohol awareness week, and it's a 6 weeks online course. And some of the practices that I created are are some EFT tapping for self confidence, you know. Yeah. This is so powerful.
Camille:Like, you don't need a drink. You you have everything
Mike:It's so easy and you don't think it could work. You know, the first you've never done it. You're like, yeah. Right.
Camille:Absolutely. And it's just this like and you feel so much, you know, for this once you feel so much more confident, so much more empowered, or people will say to me, oh, but I, I drink because it helped me relax. But actually, I teach yin yoga, which is a, a style of yoga, which is much more, slower, much more static, much more relaxing. We really open up the body. We release tension in the body but also in the mind.
Camille:For me, that's that's the deep, like, clean that you wanna do to feel to feel like you can come back to that, state of, like, what we call rest and digest that, like, parasympathetic of your nervous system. I think our nervous system in modern society is completely burn out for most of us. You know, we are triggered all the time and actually practicing those practices that help you to heal your nervous system, to come back in that space, in that state of balance and relaxation. That is way more powerful than a glass of, you know, 1 too many glass of wine at the end of the day that actually might make you feel like for a second that you are more relaxed because it slows down the connection in your brain. But actually, the day after is way worse.
Camille:It will disturb your sleep. You wake up and you don't feel good. So
Mike:It just pushes it off to the next day. All it does is hit pause and then it comes right back and you're in a lower state.
Camille:And worse. You're worth
Mike:it. Yeah.
Camille:And way worse, you know, it's like the business just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and you're like, woah.
Mike:Yeah. Totally.
Camille:And and so for me, it's about slowly because if you throw everything at 1 person, they'll be like, woah. This is a bit too much for me. But it's about learning those tools that you can integrate and whatever resonate with you and what can you integrate. It's the same I say, if at the end of the day you feel like that all you wanna do is, like, open the fridge and and pour your glass, yourself a glass of something because, you know, you've been stressed and and it's just a bit too much, then just go for a walk first. Just go outside, go in nature, just go for a little walk.
Camille:And then after you might still wanna, you know, have a drink, but you will be in a different mindset. You will be in a different space. And that shift is just so important. And for for me, that's what we need to learn is to not just use alcohol as a way to escape, as a way to cope, but actually what tools can we learn to be able to cope with all these challenges that are being thrown at us in our everyday life and use alcohol sometime as what you celebrate if that's the balance that works for ourself. And I always said to people, when you wanna drink alcohol, ask yourself this question.
Camille:Am I drinking to to celebrate or am I drinking to escape? And if it's the the later, then I'll recommend not drinking. I actually have, I can share it with you. I have, like, a a mental check-in, which is like, I'm feeling this way you can order this. You know, you can drink that way.
Camille:Like, it's just a nice way to, like, to check-in with yourself and to understand where you're at. Because also, most of us are stuck in this hamster wheel where we don't take the moment a moment to pose, to check-in with ourself. And especially with alcohol, it's very much of default mode modes. We go on to drinking whatever we always drink or whatever our friends are having at the moment instead of actually checking in and be like, do do I wanna drink alcohol tonight or do I wanna go for an alcohol free option? Yeah.
Mike:I mean, that's definitely, like, the definition of bringing mindfulness to it. And so surprisingly, you know, I had doctor Andrew Tsatarski, who does harm reduction. He's, like, 1 of the leaders, around that movement. And he said something like 90% of people when he said, you know, what do you think about about your drinking when you go out? Or how do you want it to look like?
Mike:And he said 90% of people just said, I don't. I don't think about it. And so Yeah. I that's such a good point you made there. And I actually you you mentioned your 6 week program.
Mike:And so you have 3 core concepts. So let's go let's go through them at, like, a high level because I also wanna talk to you about your great knowledge around no and low alcohol cocktails. But tell me about that. There's 3 core pillars. Right?
Camille:Of that, my course.
Mike:The remove, reduce Yeah.
Camille:Yeah. Replace. It's like it's actually, it's actually even bigger for for the for the 6 weeks online course. It start with reset, which is exactly what we just discussed. It's not rushing into action.
Camille:It's actually not changing anything and becoming aware of our relationship, of our goal. It's asking ourselves the question, you know, why do I why do I drink? When do I drink? How often? How does it make me feel?
Camille:What do I drink? With who do I drink? It's all those question that actually brings awareness, and it's that little pose before drinking, before ordering that just brings awareness. I actually recommend, people that when they order at the bar, that first, they excel. Very, very often, we don't take the time to just arrive in the places and breathe.
Camille:We, you know, if you're like me, you're you're running late. So you're like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm late. And then you arrive and your friend is sitting at the table, and then you don't really wanna read the entire menu because you're like, oh, 0.
Camille:And so you're like, oh, I would have whatever they're having, and you're having what I call a bar panic. And instead of actually taking a pose, taking a breath, checking in with yourself, and then decided what you wanna drink. I think that's really important. The second 1 I say hydrates because very often, people are dehydrated and they end up drinking their first drink way too quickly because they're just really thirsty. And so starting with a glass of water That
Mike:was me. That was really great.
Camille:So much. Right? So many people. I mean, I I was like that probably as well. And so I think it's like have a glass of water while you check the money.
Camille:And then the last 1 for me is starting with alcohol free. Go with an alcohol free option to start your evening. Again, that take off the the pressure of ordering and, you know, deciding, and then you can be like, okay. I had a night. I had time to catch up with my friend.
Camille:I'm I'm hydrated. Now I can be like, I'm gonna have 1 alcohol for you know, 1 alcoholic drink or I'm gonna stick to alcohol free for the evening. So Mhmm. That awareness and that first week is all about reset. The second 1 is remove which is all about what happen if we remove alcohol.
Camille:Can we relearn how to connect with people in a way that doesn't involve just sitting on the bar and invite people? How can we, you know, discover and be curious and have fun and explore different way of connecting as we remove the alcohol? The 3rd week is about replacing it and that's diving into this really exciting category of no and no and all this amazing option that you can have and, you know, I always feel like it's almost like going this, like, no and low safari. You know? You're like, oh, you you can have this and this and this, and it's a really exciting place to be to be able to discover that you don't have to stick to, you know, borrowing sparkling water or sugary soda.
Camille:You know, there's a whole category out there, more and more product being launched every month of the of the year and just a a fast growing category. Then we have the reassess where you kind of take it all in, take the time to reflect, see where you're at after already a few weeks, and really noticing the change. That's really the moment where you can be a bit more, you know, going into more bespoke cocktail and things that, like, you truly enjoy. Really connecting with yourself, noticing the benefits of being alcohol free that are, you know, starting to show into your everyday life, more energy, better sleep, a bit, you know, more clarity of mind, improving probably your relationship because you're feeling more yourself etcetera etcetera. Even though we can talk about this that sometime it also make you feel a bit more disconnected to the people that you used to just drink with and I think that's okay to to, to let go of that.
Camille:And then the week after that is the reduce where I actually teach different technique on moderation from technique like the zebra striping as we call it when you do 1 alcoholic drink, 1 non alcoholic, and you kind of go like this to something called the book ending, which is you start with an alcohol free and you end with an alcohol free, but also technique in cocktails on how you can really reduce the ABV either by taking your favorite, you know, classic cocktail. Let's call it the Negroni and then switching the the gene for an alcohol free version or 1 of the ingredients to reduce the ABV or by using all my cocktail that I do on 1 unit of alcohol. And so it's using 1 measure of alcohol and better ingredients, you know, in in the cocktail and really understanding how you can if you want to go back to moderation in the way where you much more knowledgeable when you know that, like, your body can't process alcohol as quickly as we usually drink 1 way out. And having all this knowledge of understanding ABV, alcohol by volume, and all of that. And then the last week is the refresh.
Camille:It's the celebration where you feel like you've been on a really empowering journey and you kind of share with the community of like minded people, where you're at, what you what you learn about yourself, about, you know, like, different social situation and how you handle that and how you feel much more strong and confident, and you're ready to, like, live that that exciting life of being a mindful drinker. So but it's amazing to see people on that journey with the 6 weeks with, you know, weekly, meet up and gathering online and and all of that. So really, really exciting.
Mike:It sounds amazing. I mean, you you touched on so many points that either I've written about or I talked about with other experts. So it sound you know, coming down to, self reflection, tracking, strategies and tactics to get you through and actually a long term strategy. And we gotta talk, you know, after this about how we can somehow work together with Sunnyside where maybe there's an integration that can help, the people that are going through your program. So I'm sure that there's a lot of opportunity there.
Camille:Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Mike:I wanna talk to you before we go about, known low cocktail options and I want to first give you the opportunity to say and anyone listening we laughed a little bit. I'm pretty good with Spanish, but I'm not great with French pronunciation. So, I'm gonna give it a try. La la Maison. Yeah.
Camille:You know that. There you go.
Mike:So, MAIS0N for anybody listening. Tell us what that is first before we get into some of this.
Camille:Yeah. So when I when I launched my company, I really wanted to create this space where people obviously was on online and an online community and and everything was online even though there was in real life event. But I wanted, people to feel like there was a home of, of wellness. And for me, that was mindful drinking. That was all the different mindful practices that I I share and I teach.
Camille:And so means the home, and that's why it's called wellness. It's for me that was that was the home of wellness where you will learn and be able to thrive as what I call the healthy hedonist. And it was this idea of, like, learning to to drink well, to live well. So that that's where the the name come from. Yeah.
Camille:Absolutely. And so it's a it's a platform that is dedicated for people that want to remove, replace, or reduce alcohol. And for me, I wanted to show the world that you could bring mindfulness into the glass, that it didn't have to be, I do this, I go to the gym, I eat well, I'm even meditate, you know, every day and then I go on the weekend, I go out. You know, I feel like that there was the 2 worlds and I wanted to bring the world the 2 worlds together. And I also wanted to show people that tasty doesn't have to be briezy and that you can make delicious alcohol free cocktail that would be so fun, that will give you this, you know, celebration.
Camille:Like, I always say, keep the rituals, update the recipe. Like, for me, it's all about still having those moments of connection, the celebration. I think food and drinks have an amazing way of bringing people together. I just don't think alcohol has to be part of the equation or definitely not every single time. And I wanted to show people that because I think that it's such already a journey to come to the this point of being like, I think I wanna change.
Camille:I I think I wanna rethink the way I drink, and I'm gonna go on to that journey of, like, learning more about myself, understanding my relationship with alcohol, putting in place this, like, you know, technique, and strategies to, like, drink less. But what do I drink? You know? And I think a lot of people just didn't know how they could what they could drink. And and when I launched with at the end of 2017 and at that time I mean, there was very, very little non option like Sidlip had just launched.
Camille:And I've seen the birth of most of the marcoly spirits, You know, loads of wine and loads of beers. And and as someone who judge a lot of, the spirits or wounds, I have really tasted so many different products over the years and seen how much it has improved, evolved, and how many amazing options are available. And so I really wanted to be able to share that with people and to guide them and to say, you know, you can still have those epic nights. You just also gain your your early mornings.
Mike:Well said. Definitely. And so actually, I listened to some of your answers about, like, going out, on other interviews about going out, getting drinks, and I think it's great and you consult with restaurants and you're a mixologist. And so, like, let's just say, I think it's great that there's more options out there. I I still go to places and there really isn't as you drink your cocktail.
Mike:So number 1, how do you I think a lot even I feel a little bit weird ordering unless somebody I'm with is ordering an, NA option. I feel a little bit weird being the only 1. How do you do you have a a little bit of suggestions on how, first of all, to look at the menu if there's not something you want, what to order, and how you do it, like, confidently. Like, where you feel better about yourself.
Camille:Yeah. Absolutely. I think for me, it's the same with peer pressure. The more confident you are, the more you're like this is what I'm having and I'm excited about it. The the easier it's gonna be.
Camille:You know, the moment where you feel like you have your heart and apologize and oh no. That's when it feels like you feel like you're diminishing the experience and you feel disconnected to it. And I totally understand and I think it's even harder in places where there's no option, you know, because then you have to like, I I get really frustrated. I go to to bars and I say, oh, do you have any alcohol free options? And they're like, oh, yeah.
Camille:Yeah. We do. I'm like, it's not on the menu. They're like, oh yeah yeah no we don't put them on the menu. I'm like, why?
Mike:Yeah.
Camille:Very simple, just put it on the damn menu so people know, you know. And I mean, I could we could talk for hours on, like, how much money bars and restaurant and actually, they quantify it here in the UK, and it's 800, 000, 000 that is left on the table from bars and restaurant not ups like having a no and no offers. So they're not upselling from tap water. People are drinking tap water because there's nothing else on the menu for them. So actually think that there's a real responsibility from hospitality industry to get on board.
Camille:I understand that at some point they probably didn't really like the option that were available. They weren't really fully on board but now there's no excuses. There's some absolutely outstanding products that are available that are alcohol free and that should be on the menu because we this industry is about hospitality and hospitality is being able to make every single guest that walk into a bar feeling like feel welcome and feel like that person belong. So I think that it's also reminding yourself that you are not a second, you know, second class guest. You are you belong there.
Camille:People that don't drink alcohol belong in bars and restaurant and should be able to have an experience if they want to, you know. There's also people that don't wanna hang out in this environment for different reason but I think that there is option and we shouldn't we shouldn't feel like it's, it's a burden to ask or that's, you know, because you go to a venue where the the bartender, she or he is, like, rolling their eyes a little bit because they don't really care about knowing that, that should make you feel a certain way. I actually think that, like, asking like, I go I go to bars and restaurant, and I actually share my knowledge with people with people. I say, oh, I really like this or have you tried this? And so even for for, you know, consumer and and guests that aren't, you know, no 1, no drink expert like myself.
Camille:Like, what do you enjoy? What do you drink at home that, like, alcohol free and you enjoy? Tell your local bar, you know. They will I'm sure if you go often, they will end up putting it on the menu. They will learn with you.
Camille:Like there's there's also an opportunity for the guest to ask for what they want. And I think that the more we ask, the more the train's gonna have to listen. They're gonna really see the opportunity. I was actually on the panel, on Monday here in the UK with a company called Dissell Venture, which is, an accelerator for for spirits, drinks. And, and I was on the on the panel with different people, including someone who's the founder of a very big group all around the world and he he was saying that.
Camille:He was like, we all we didn't wanna put our coffee option. People keep on asking so we listen and we ask them what they like and we put what they like on the menu not because we knew that like you know that was really good and we went on like that's but just because that's what people wanted to drink and actually it was really good. So I think that it we are we are in this transitional phase where this is definitely not a trend, it's definitely staying, it's definitely growing, and they they we have to work with bars and restaurant on asking for more, and they have to listen and understand the category more. And it has improved and it is getting better and there's still a long way to go. But I think the more we also, you know, mindful drinker educate themselves and learn about what they enjoy and what they want to drink.
Camille:And the more they ask for it the more available it's gonna be.
Mike:Yes. So awesome. Such good insights also. And I remember seeing some places start to carry more NA things, and I was like, oh, people are getting on board. This is great.
Mike:But as you said, whether they like it or not, they gotta get on board because they're missing out on money. So it is not a trend. It's gonna continue to grow. I wish it would go faster, obviously. Yeah.
Mike:But I love that you're, like, just order what you want. Don't be, like, I'll have the NA beer in a glass, please. You know, like, give me that. You know?
Camille:Just 100%. And I think 1 big thing is to remember that you never have to justify. You don't need to justify yourself to anyone. You know? You don't have to explain why you're having an alcoholic beer.
Camille:Like, I I think it's
Mike:A healthier option?
Camille:Yeah. Exact and I think there's this thing about, you know, for women, it's always like, oh, are you expecting? And you're like, no. I'm just having a a night where I don't wanna drink. Just, you know, And and it's like, I think for men, there's always this, like, what's wrong?
Camille:There's still a bit of that. You know? And I think that remembering that, like, you don't have to justify. And also things say to people, like, if you need to come up with an with an excuse because you feel a bit pressure, that's also fine. Do whatever works for you.
Camille:If you have to say, I actually have a really big day tomorrow. I've got an early meetings and I need to to be sharp. Great. Say that. If you whatever you if you need to say, I'm on the mindful drinking program with and we're doing 6 weeks.
Camille:You know? Like, say that. Even if you haven't signed up, whatever you need to be able to, like I think that's 1 of the reason why dry January is, so successful because people it gives people at, like, an a reason, an excuse to be able to take a break because it is even though, you know, most people might not do it for the entire month or whatever, but it gives people a, like, they they left alone. Like it's like, oh, no. I'm doing drive January.
Camille:Oh, okay. Cool. You know? And so I think that, like, that we it's almost like sometime we need that reason. And either it's like I I saw that, like, Sunil, you're doing this dry ish July.
Camille:And either it's like, oh, I'm taking part in this challenge, or it's a program like mine that I run, you know, a few times a year or whatever it is. I think that's, like, sometimes you just need a reason to, like, feel more comfortable doing it. And that's great also, you know, you will build your confidence. You'll feel more empowered. You would have the knowledge to be able to say why you wanna change your drinking habit.
Camille:That is not, you know, something that is we should be ashamed of or that doesn't mean that we have a problem. You would learn all the amazing things that you enjoy and then you will feel much more comfortable having the answer. But if your entry point is actually signing up for a challenge or, you know, whatever it is that get you there, awesome. You do you. Yeah.
Camille:I love it.
Mike:Yeah. Totally. Alright. So let's finish it off with a little bit of fun. So you're sitting there drinking, you have something in your hand.
Mike:If you're watching the video, it's got a orange slice or a grapefruit slice. I can't tell. So why don't you tell us what that is? And and if that's not your favorite drink, tell us your favorite drink. So there you go.
Camille:This is actually 1 of my favorite drink, but I'm also that person. Like, if you ask me my favorite drink, I'm probably gonna say, like, 17 because I can't narrow it down to
Mike:1 of my Tell me that. But first, let's start with that 1. What are you drinking now?
Camille:So I am actually drinking something that is from the UK. It's not available in the US yet, but they are planning on launching. It's called Bativo and it's a beautiful, apple cider vinegar based aperitif. They use so vinegar, it's an amazing way to extract flavor. It's actually the best after alcohol, and it was used for, like, you know, centuries and, like, as a way to to make, herbal, remedy.
Camille:And so they use the apple cider vinegar to extract all the beautiful botanicals, gentsyan, rosemary, orange, all of these that it's quite like the classic, bittersweet aperitif and they just sweeten it with a little bit of honey and you actually can just mix it with soda water because it's so potent and so powerful. And I really really like that because I think that it's just a beautiful, delicious, complex aperitif that is really easy to mix and that you can you don't have to mix with, like, tonic water that can often, contain a lot of sugar if you don't choose the right brand or, you know, a a sugary mixer that's just delicious. So that's definitely 1 of my go to. I am a spritz person for life. I have been spritzing for for almost, 2 decades now.
Camille:And, and I think that there's some really beautiful non alcoholic aperitif in in, the no and low category from the classic, you know, Martini, nonalcoholic aperitif, Vibrante, Florale, to a brand called Wilfred, to so many different ones that you can just mix either with tonic water or mix with a normal alcoholic sparkling wine and a bit of soda, sliced with, like, you know, a a slice of, of citrus and it's just beautiful. So I'm always up for, a spritz. And sometime you just mix it with, like, something like kombucha, which is also really good for your gut health if you choose the right brand and and really flavorful. And something fizzy, something with loads of, like, bitterness and character for me is always a winner.
Mike:Now you got me thirsty. So
Camille:The I feel like I'm Those all sound great. You're like, I got you. You a drink.
Mike:Well, we definitely have to come back have you come back on and talk again. But before we go, why don't you tell anybody listening if they wanna connect with you where they can go and learn a little bit more?
Camille:Yeah. Absolutely. So you can find me on social media at mindfullykami. I have loads of, like, fun recipes that I share every week, but also some fun, like, series such as, like, what's good and not where I tried loads of no and no product and I tell you what's good so you don't have to try what's not. You know?
Camille:Like, serious like as the expert, why not ask expert around the world and loads of, like, different things like that. So that's a good place to find me and somewhere where I spend a lot of time. You know? And then my website, lemise and wellness, which is the largest no 1 knows, cocktail recipe resource, go there. They're all free.
Camille:They're all available. They're all there. And actually everything is organised by time of the day so you don't have to like try to understand the recipes, it's what's good for brunch, what's good for the daytime cocktail, evening, nightcap, all of it is there. So have a look at that, and then reach out to me. I actually have a lot of people that reach out and say, I have this, like, events and I really want a recipe or I'm going to this wedding and I don't know what to drink.
Camille:Like, ask me for a recommendation and as much as I can, I will always respond? And I just want people to have a good drink in their hand that enable them to drink well so they can live well and have fun.
Mike:That's hospitality as you say.
Camille:That is.
Mike:So, well, thanks for call hanging out. I know it's late for you, so thanks for hanging out with us late. And, it was awesome. So thanks a lot, Kimmy.
Camille:Thank you so much for having me.
Mike:This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number 1 alcohol moderation platform, having helped 100 of thousands of people cut out more than 13, 000, 000 drinks since 2020. And in fact, an independent study showed that Sunnyside reduced alcohol consumption by an average of 30% in 90 days. And as 1 of our members shared, Sunnyside helps me stay mindful of my drinking habits. It's not super restrictive. So if I'm craving a glass of wine with dinner, I just track it and I move on with my week.
Mike:If you could benefit from drinking a bit less and being more mindful of when and how much you drink, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free 15 day trial. You'll get access to everything that we offer, including tracking and planning tools, coaching from our experts, a vibrant community of people just like you, and the motivation and advice to stay on track with your health goals, all with no pressure to quit. That's sunnyside.co.
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