Emotional Sobriety, Cravings, and Nervous System Repair w/ Colleen Freeland
Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, the podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and of course, your own mindful drinking journey. This podcast is brought to you by Sunny Side, the number one alcohol moderation platform. And if you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free fifteen day trial. I'm your host, Mike Hardinbrook, published author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert. Most people try to change their drinking by focusing on the alcohol itself.
Speaker 1:But if you've ever felt like you're stuck reacting the same way over and over, there's a reason. And it's not just in your head, it's in your body. In this episode, I'm joined again by Colleen Freeland, a master life coach and addiction recovery specialist who helps high achieving women cut their drinking by 80% without labels or lifelong abstinence. We break down why cravings and urges can feel so overpowering, how your nervous system actually wires you to keep reaching for a drink, and why chasing relief is the wrong goal. We also get into what emotional sobriety really looks like in practice.
Speaker 1:And Colleen shares a couple of simple tools you can try tonight to start calming your system and breaking the old pattern for good. Okay, Colleen. Thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:So good to see you, Mike.
Speaker 1:Okay. So last time we dug into your story and some of those big mindset shifts. And today, I wanna get into something more on the body side of all this. You teach that it's not just all in your mind. It's also happening in your nervous system and your biology.
Speaker 1:Can you break that down for us?
Speaker 2:Well so what happens when you are drinking on a regular basis is that alcohol, because it's a depressant drug, raises your cortisol levels. And so that's one thing. And then the other thing is that alcohol, it it spikes your dopamine levels. And think of your baseline levels of dopamine. Dopamine is your motivation.
Speaker 2:It's your get off your butt and go get something. You know, it's go collect resources. So you have a baseline level of dopamine, and think about that as like an amount of water in the bathtub. And if you make waves in that water, some of the water is going to spill out, lowering the level of water in your bathtub. So when you are drinking like I did every single day, I was spiking my dopamine, blowing through all the reserves, and then the the next day, my dopamine levels were lower.
Speaker 2:So very subtly, over time, I was less motivated to, you know, engage in and enjoy normal everyday activities. I became motivated to just get to 05:00 so I could get my drink because my baseline levels were so low. So what I didn't realize about whether you call it addiction or dependency or a habit is that there's a physiological component to that. The reason why I would wake up in the morning and I would say, I'm not gonna drink tonight as God is my witness. And then I'd push through my day on low dopamine levels.
Speaker 2:And then I thought the I thought I had to suffer through the evening because I was suffering. It takes days for your cortisol levels to come back down even with kind of moderate amounts of of alcohol. And if you're not an overly stressed person, like, I enjoy drinking, and I don't feel it, you know, days later. But when you're already stressed to the max, you know, and now you're on this twenty four hour hamster wheel where you're spiking your cortisol, your dopamine levels are dropping. And there's also a brain chemical called dynorphin.
Speaker 2:And it rate dynorphin is your apathy. And so it's because your brain's trying to offset the dopamine spike, and so it it pulls in the dynorphin. And so slowly over time, life just loses its color a little bit. You know? Everybody's kind of a pain in the ass.
Speaker 2:You just gotta kinda get through this thing, and it all kind of begins to focus. Your brain wants to solve the problem. Why do I feel bad? And it it's not telling the truth because you may not be aware of alcohol's physiological effects on the body. And so now you're telling yourself a story.
Speaker 2:I just hate my job or my kids are being jerks or life is so stressful. And over time, your brain has learned to associate alcohol with stress relief. You know, that's the number one driver of the addictive process of alcohol is when you start using alcohol because you think, I need a drink to relax. I need a drink to take the edge off. That language driving that behavior then creates a habit that is then supported by the negative feedback loops of your dopamine and cortisol and dynorphin, not to mention the withdrawal effects of alcohol.
Speaker 2:You know, you you just don't feel as good, and your brain learns how to solve that problem. Alcohol's the problem. Alcohol's the solution. Welcome to alcohol use disorder.
Speaker 1:It reminds me of a quote by Homer Simpson. Alcohol, the solution and cause of all problems. Right. It might have been the other way around, but it was, like, so well quoted by him. And, you know, I myself have been was stuck in the exact same cycle.
Speaker 1:And there I love your take because there is absolutely a connection between the mind and the body and our behaviors, and you really need to pay attention to every single one of them. Even in moderation, it's going on. It comes up. People don't realize that cravings is actually related to like a mini withdrawal. It's not just in your behaviors.
Speaker 1:And if you go through your day, like you said, where your dopamine is dysregulated and it's at a low and things aren't giving you the same pleasure that they normally would be at operating at normal levels, you get to a point where I call it the the likelihood to outcome. The likelihood if I have this drink that the outcome will I'll feel better. I'll get relieved for at least for a temporary period. It's gonna be a 100%. Right?
Speaker 1:Right. Then there's other things that you could do, but they the likelihood the outcome isn't gonna be as high, and so you get stuck in that cycle. And I wanna get into this because you have some thoughts on what do you call that cycle in your program?
Speaker 2:I call it the detox to retox. So, you know, I would spend my entire day. I'd wake up, and I'd slam more water than a normal portion should drink. I would take handfuls and handfuls of supplements. Then I'd go run it out, you know, eight to 10 miles minimum.
Speaker 2:So I'd sweat and exercise. And then I was the perfect vegan plant based diet. So only put good stuff into my body. Thank you very much. So I would make sure I'd get all the micronutrients and the enzymes, and I did sauerkraut and fermented foods.
Speaker 2:So I'd spend all day, you know, trying to clear out my body, and then I'd arrive at 05:00 and pop a bottle of wine and do the whole damn thing all over again.
Speaker 1:I did the exact same thing. Did the exact same thing. I mean, I've I'd sit there and supplement and drink tons of water, like liter and a half, two liters in the morning, go for a run, sauna, breath work. I take green smoothie. Bring green smoothie.
Speaker 1:Bring me back to life. I remember I think to myself. It's, like, absurd.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I did juice plus, and I remember the the gal that sold them to me, she knew me. And she goes, these are, like, hangover helpers. I'm like, give me double. So I started taking double Juice Plus every day.
Speaker 1:It's it's so funny how and this really lends to our last conversation around, like, the addictive personality in that you would have no control in your life, if that were the case. But in in, like, our own personal history, we had total not total control, but a lot of control over our behaviors in almost every regard. But the mindset and the approach in our conditioning from Young completely changes it for some reason around alcohol. Not just that because it's an actual drug, but because culturally things have taught us to think differently about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, you know, when alcohol becomes a a coping mechanism, it's a sign that you're running on a deficit. You know, that is where self sabotage behaviors come from. It's like you can only put so much pressure on the system. And so you start using alcohol to I know as a mom, I'd work all day, be busy all day detoxing and everything else I was doing.
Speaker 2:And then I'd come in to 05:00, and I still had an eight hour shift ahead of me. You know? I had kids and dance and soccer and homework and laundry and dinner and house cleaning, and alcohol helped to make that okay. But what I wasn't being honest about was that my own needs, you know, I didn't have enough I wasn't making enough time for myself. Which even as I say that out of my mouth, well I made time to drink, didn't I?
Speaker 2:But this is where it's a thinking problem. You know, even you said something a minute ago that triggered this idea that we even have alcohol cravings. Like, that is not true. Your body doesn't ever crave alcohol. Your body craves water and rest and movement and sunlight and connection and social interaction.
Speaker 2:Right? Your brain is it's the thinking habit. Thoughts are habits too. And so when you have a problem and something that you're craving and then you're like, well, I have a list of options here. I could go to the gym.
Speaker 2:I could have a drink. The more you select on drink, the more the thinking habit forms, the thought process collapse. And then that thought of I need to relax. I'm gonna have a drink just becomes I need to have a drink. But part of the things I do with women is help build out the language.
Speaker 2:You know? It is not alcohol you crave. It is dopamine that you crave. It is re relief and relaxation that you crave. And so just being honest about what it is that you really want is very it it start telling yourself the truth.
Speaker 1:That's such a good one to pull back that layer because it is true. Like, not physically you're wanting that drink with a craving, especially when we're talking specifically around people that are, like, not in the heavy, heavy use category, right, where there might be some physical withdrawals at a more serious level. And that's why I've I've thought about this. You know, like, when you get to that craving point, it's not really like, I'm not craving the taste of, like, whatever your, you know, favorite drink is. You're really, like, need to stop and ask yourself, what do I need right now, or what do I really want?
Speaker 1:What's the outcome of this drink? Is it to diffuse? Is it to mark the weekend? Is it to stop these racing thoughts? You know, those are the things that you need to think about what you're actually craving that relief in one way or another.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. I'm craving a relief from all the pressure and all the stress and or I'm tired. You know, a lot of women I work with, that's a big one. It's like, well, yeah, you're tired.
Speaker 2:Like, why are you drinking through that? Go to bed.
Speaker 1:Oh, man. Isn't that sometimes the easiest answer?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I I have my gals, one of the the tools or the coping pattern interrupts that we use is, like, when you come home from work, just go lay on your bed for five minutes. Just five minutes because the version of you who gets five minutes of rest is gonna have a much different opinion about what you need to do for the rest of the evening. Like and that's what we we think it's it's gonna be so hard to change, But the truth is that when you give yourself what you really need and you're not in that lack mindset that that I need something, when when you feel complete and satisfied and in control and able to make good decisions for yourself, you drink like somebody who feels complete and satisfied and in control and able to make good decisions.
Speaker 2:Like, you don't change your mind. You change your mood. You you you minister to your body. I think that one of the language things that really helps if you tease it apart is to say, you know, I want. It's like, no.
Speaker 2:My body needs. My brain thinks I want. Like, separating yourself from the body that is your job to take care of. And when I changed my relationship with my body you know, I used to think that self care was pedicures and Proseccos and, you know, getting my highlights done and going shopping and exercising so my butt is a size two. But when I changed my definition of self to it being the body that I'm taking care of, that really changed.
Speaker 2:Because as a mom, you know, I know how to take care of a two year old. It's not always fun. You gotta make them eat the broccoli. They need to take the nap. But I wasn't parenting myself that way.
Speaker 2:I wasn't giving my body the same respect that I gave to everybody else, including my kids. You know?
Speaker 1:Oh, man. What insights that you came to? You know? And I you know, one of the things that you said there made me think that we always equate, like, these big changes. The bigger the effort, the bigger the result.
Speaker 1:But it doesn't need to be that way. Just like you said, go and lay it down. And the bigger the change, the harder it's gotta be. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way either. So you have great tactics.
Speaker 1:So let me hit you on the spot with one. Like, when you get those urges or your cravings in that moment, you gave us one about goal lay down. What's one of your other go tos?
Speaker 2:Well, that that would go into the category of one of my client's favorite. We call it delay, don't deny. And that is just, like, in general, if you always, you know, have a drink when you get home or whenever you get to an event, skip the first round. Trust me. You need to hydrate anyway.
Speaker 2:And allow yourself five minutes, fifteen minutes to just decompress. Let your body and your brain come back into sync. Because, again, the person the version of you who is in sync makes different decisions. And so just putting in a pause you don't have to say you're not drinking. You just skip the first round.
Speaker 2:That's the easiest one to skip because you can catch up later if you want. No judgment. But it also retrains your brain to associate that you are in control of your stress relief with an actual stress reliever, which is just the pause. Just the pause and take a breath. So we use the delay, don't deny strategy.
Speaker 2:Also, if you are looking at really big habit change, you know, this is embedded in your daily life, using mental rehearsal. So you're not gonna see you're not gonna do something that you don't see yourself doing. And one of the biggest mistakes, the mistake that people make is I'm going to drink less. Oh, that's not a thing. Your brain cannot visualize you drinking less.
Speaker 2:And the more you think you're gonna drink less, the as you as your last glass of wine goes down, your anxiety is going up because what am I gonna do next? You have no idea who you would be or what you would do next. Whereas like I teach the side effect of of of feeling confident and in control is that you drink like somebody who feels that way. So what I teach women to do is set emotional goals. How do you wanna feel?
Speaker 2:Not how much do you wanna drink. Like, that only a person with a drinking thinking problem would be asking that question. How do you wanna feel? I wanna feel calm, connected, grounded. And then you mentally rehearse that.
Speaker 2:So two minutes in the morning, maybe once again at lunchtime, where you put yourself into the situation and you mentally rehearse yourself showing up as you want. Imagine yourself saying when somebody offers you another glass of wine. Imagine yourself saying, more alcohol will ruin my buzz. No. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I feel complete. I'll have a glass of water, and maybe I'll have another glass of wine in a little bit. But, again, you're not gonna do what you can't imagine yourself doing. So taking that time to fantasize about being and acting the way that's how you your brain doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality. Right?
Speaker 2:It experiences whatever you're thinking about in real time. So that's a good way to practice, you know, and prime the brain so that when that moment comes, you've rehearsed it. Like and even if it feels hard, it's not as hard. It's like it's a teeter totter. It could go either way.
Speaker 2:But good news. It could go either way. You know? And so mental rehearsal is really important as a strategy. Another thing that works really well is your tomorrow self.
Speaker 2:Like, I say go to the bathroom once be when you know that you should stop and but everybody's going on and everybody's, come on. One more. Stay for this one. You're like, I gotta potty. I'll be right back.
Speaker 2:Go look yourself in the eyes because you are a human and eye contact. It it pierces your soul when you look in your eye. Like, you can feel that connection, And you just ask your tomorrow self. Hey. I'm having a good time.
Speaker 2:Would you mind if I stayed and had another drink? Because she can't tell you the truth. No, dummy. We have to get up at 5AM. You have a huge presentation.
Speaker 2:No. You're not doing that. Or she might say, yeah. You know what? We can sleep an extra hour in the morning.
Speaker 2:Tomorrow's a lazy day. Like, you know what? Knock yourself out. But checking in with your tomorrow self, showing respect for this body, this person, and that's how you find your truth. So
Speaker 1:Yes. It well, first of all, to your point on the projecting or or visualization, like, it's been proven and studied deeply, especially with, like, Olympic athletes and pro athletes. If they do visualization, it's just as powerful as if they're sitting on a free throw line shooting a 100 practice free throws or if they're visualizing doing it same result. And so, like, building that in to your your plan because just saying I wanna drink less is not a plan. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and I so I love that. Help me go a little bit further with that. Is there a way to frame that? Because I think a lot of people will say like, I visualize myself. I don't wanna drink this way.
Speaker 1:But I I tend to lean towards, like, frame it in, like, the positive way. Is that how do you frame it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. You have to know what you would be doing and thinking instead. Your brain it is just like a search engine. You know? If you type in, you know, what do you want tonight for dinner?
Speaker 2:Not pizza. It's gonna bring up images of pizza. It's gonna bring up articles about when you shouldn't eat pizza, And you're gonna be think it's like your reticular activating system. It's your brain, there's nothing wrong with your brain. It will help you get whatever you think you want.
Speaker 2:And if you think you don't want to drink that much, then it's gonna help you get real focused on what you are not doing. The real goal like, one of my favorite shares in my program is for women when they show up and say, it never occurred to me to have a drink last night. It never entered my mind. I forgot about drinking. And that's where the work has to be done with building out other neural pathways.
Speaker 2:Who would you be? What would you be thinking? What would you be doing and enjoying and loving so much that your focus is so on that, it doesn't occur to you to drink. And so, you know, if you want to drink less at a party, it that's a bad goal. It's I I want to spend more time having better conversations.
Speaker 2:I I want wanna to get to know so and so better. I want to leave by 10:00 so that I can feel relaxed. You have to say what you want to be doing instead. Not it it it can't be the absence of alcohol. Your brain doesn't solve for the absence of things.
Speaker 2:That's an inverted negative goal.
Speaker 1:Yes. And, you know, I see the play between these things. So, like, for example, the visualization, you saying that somebody that didn't even drink or didn't even think about drinking, I think it could also play into is it is it, pause, don't deny?
Speaker 2:Right? Delay, don't deny.
Speaker 1:Delay, don't deny. Apologies there. So delay, don't deny. You come in because maybe a lot of people run for the bar when they get to a social event because that's how they get loosened up and start talking. If you'd say, I'm just not gonna have it right now, and you settle into these conversations and you're enjoying yourself, you might forget, and you might not even need to
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Delay. You just forget about it because you've already visualized yourself having a good time. You've already visualized yourself that aligns to the values, and you use the tactic of coming in and, delay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, you know, preparing yourself. You know? Don't show up at a party with a bottle of wine, and everybody else is showing up with a bottle of wine like I always show up with my favorite nonalcoholic beverages. I may bring a bottle of wine too.
Speaker 2:I'm not a jerk. But so one of the things I see myself doing is switching because one of the mantras that I have that I believe is I prefer going to sleep sober. I don't like to fall asleep because otherwise then I wake up. It disrupts my sleep. So that's kind of how I judge my timing of things.
Speaker 2:So I see myself switching to a non alcoholic beverage so that I can enjoy the buzz that I have and kind of start winding down my evening. So you can see yourself doing that. And you can imagine what thoughts you would be thinking like, oh, I'm so glad I stopped. I'm gonna feel so much better tomorrow. Oh my god.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm so glad I'm not like those jerks who are continuing to drink over and over. Like, you can imagine those thoughts. You can't imagine the absence.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And the more you imagine, the more that you prophesize them in your own behaviors, the more you can visualize them as being real because it's starting to actually happen in your real life. Now you talk about we've talked about some of this, but I wanna kinda, like, put an actual label on it, and that is emotional sobriety. Yeah. You have this whole approach around that.
Speaker 1:What does that actually look like in somebody's real life?
Speaker 2:Emotional sobriety is basically when you are no longer intoxicated by bullshit, your own or anybody else's. And so it is getting very, aware of the difference between the story you're telling yourself and the real facts that you can work with. And so, you know, emotional sobriety this is why I call myself the hangover whisperer on social media because your greatest learning is gonna happen after your mistakes. And that is that is what really needs to change when you are dealing with breaking this habit is stop expecting yourself on Monday. You're gonna show up, and you're gonna be perfect from here on out.
Speaker 2:Like, that's not gonna happen. Habits live in your body. Your thinking habits, how you think in different situations. That's your, you know, default mode network. Like, you're not gonna reprogram that overnight, which means no matter how much you mentally rehearse, no matter how well you delay and deny, no matter how deep the conversation is with your tomorrow self, there will still be times when you don't override the old habit of whatever.
Speaker 2:Screw it. That's not enough wine to save. It's fine. I'll start over tomorrow. Like, all of those thoughts that come in, you're going to still have those.
Speaker 2:And so being emotionally sober is then what allows you to get out of the shame and anxiety the next day where you're beating yourself up and making false promises to yourself. I'm never gonna drink again. I'm such a jerk. I'm so embarrassed. And just being like, okay.
Speaker 2:How do I learn? Where did I blow through my stop sign? Where was I not paying attention? The reason you keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again is because you're not learning from them. You're letting shame and anxiety drive your thinking processes.
Speaker 2:So emotional sobriety is understanding that you think how you feel. And so dealing with the feelings of shame, you know, processing that, it's okay. I forgive you. I'm proud of you for trying. I love you.
Speaker 2:I believe, you know, we've moved the needle. That's one of the biggest things is finding the win wrapped in a turd, you know, where it could have been worse. That's another strategy that I use as a hangover whisperer is like, how could it have been worse? Because your brain will create evidence even if it can't find to support what you believe. So if you ask it a question like, well, how could that have been worse?
Speaker 2:And because you're like, I didn't do anything right. I completely messed that up. It's a 100% loss. Ask yourself, well, how could it have been worse? And your brain will like, oh, let me tell you.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden, now there's some space between what happened and how bad it could have been where you can see, oh, I have moved the needle. Oh, you know, I I I finished the bottle, but I didn't open another one. Oh, you know, I drank it slower. You know, I did the delay. Don't deny.
Speaker 2:Like, these things have to be practiced and repeated. How many times have you practiced and repeated your old drinking habits? Like, you're not ready to go head to head overnight because you just listened to a good podcast, and now you're like, okay. I got it. Like, you have to learn these behaviors.
Speaker 2:Learning is felt experience, not just good ideas in your brain. You have to go through it, and then you have to be willing to learn so that you can improve. You know? And that's the biggest mistake people make is they beat themselves up, and they miss where they did move the needle, where they did get a little bit better. And and habit change is built on one small improvement at a time, not beating yourself up for one failure at a time.
Speaker 2:You have to start learning how to find the wisdom. You know, I can remember one time I woke up and felt like I'd been over served because I had. I'd and what had happened was I had felt really good and complete, and then I noticed there was, like, this much wine, like an inch wine left in the bottle, and my brain was like, that's not enough to save. So I went and poured it. I didn't catch it.
Speaker 2:Like, that was a habit thought. Right? And so now ever since I I loved myself, and I was like, oh, that was just a thought that popped into my head. It wasn't true that you can't save wine. Help.
Speaker 2:My body's on a trash can. I could have dumped it out. Didn't occur to me. And so but then now every time that that thought pops into my brain, I just laughed. I'm like, oh, for sure, I can save that.
Speaker 2:You know? Or if I can just dump it out, like, I don't have to drink it. But you have to go through it to learn. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:I do know what you mean. And I and I, you know, and I think so many people go through that the self punishment without without leaving space to learn, to grow, and to keep moving forward and to actually do better the next time. And that's where the the real cycle, in in by and large will keep you stuck if and in in in more importantly, she'll keep you miserable. So Yeah. I wanna give you this this stage for a moment to talk about how you're working with women these days in the program that you're doing because you've come here and shared such amazing, strategy and also tactics.
Speaker 1:And I wanna hear a little bit more about what you're doing now these days and what has you so excited.
Speaker 2:What has me excited is that while my program is marketed to women who drink too much and need to change, what we're really doing is getting emotionally sober. We're taking our power back, learning how to reprogram your brain. Once you realize that the only thing you ever really fear in life is your own feelings, you know, and just to give an example, like, went through a bankruptcy in my twenties. My first husband and I started a business. And for three years, we fought gallantly and then got to the point where we couldn't keep going.
Speaker 2:And then it was such a relief when we just let go. And I learned in in my twenties then that, okay, it wasn't the bankruptcy that I feared. It was how I would feel about it, beating myself up and being ashamed. And my first husband and I did a really great job of of we're not gonna do that to ourselves. We fought hard, and it was a fair loss.
Speaker 2:And so I take women into my program to teach them how to repair their relationships with themselves, to reprogram how they think. You know, this this internal narrator that is a bully and and judging and criticizing you all the time. Like, when you say you're stressed out, it's because of your brain. It is not actually because, you know, there's too much to do. Maybe you done signed yourself up for too much.
Speaker 2:That's fair. But it's like you have the power to change anything and everything in your life. And when you realize that giving yourself what you need allows you to do anything, like, the first thing we do is get the drinking under control, but then it's relationships. It's parenting. It's career.
Speaker 2:My program is a one year program because you don't rewire your brain in six weeks, eight weeks, three months, or even six months. It's an ongoing pros pros process. Your neural pathways don't get myelinated. The sheath your nerve doesn't get myelinated for six months to twelve months. So what happens like I used to do a sober program, and my program was twelve weeks.
Speaker 2:And you can start a new habit, and you're super motivated, and it's good. But then at some point, your focus shifts. And now you gotta do this on autopilot, and you're not ready for that yet. You're not ready to perform these skills under stressful situations. You have to expand your capacity to perform the role of your powerful in control self under stress, and and you have to learn.
Speaker 2:You know? This is a complicated process. It's not just about alcohol. And so I teach women, how to reprogram their brains, how to regulate their nervous system, how to speak truth to themselves so that their mind and body is on the same page. And your body isn't telling you one thing and your mind's telling you something else.
Speaker 2:Like, you can align your truth, and it can be the truth of where you're at that you don't wanna be there. But there's just positive ways to think about it so that you're not stuck, you know, in the shame spirals and anxiety. So the the the change process really requires three things, content, community, and coaching. Content, you gotta you gotta I don't brainwash you, but I'm gonna hand you the soap. You gotta listen to all of these ideas and strategies and processes and truths.
Speaker 2:And then you need coaching because you can't think your way out of your own thinking problem. Like, you need a mirror. You need somebody with a nonjudgmental attitude. Like, I believe in you. I don't know what's right for you.
Speaker 2:Let me help you figure that out. Coaching is essential. And then community is so important because we the our our group dynamic, we were social beings, and you have to be able to process what you're going through in order to see yourself from the outside in. And then, of course, science shows the fastest way to change your mind is to do so in a group of like minded people. And so you wanna make sure that the people you're with have the same goals.
Speaker 2:And that's a problem with sobriety programs because not everybody wants to stay sober forever. And if you join a program like that where there isn't room for mindful drinking and, you know, self discovery and it's all about just the habit of of the behavior of staying sober, you're not energetically aligned. And there's nothing wrong with staying sober. I'm just saying if that's not your goal to never drink again, then it's gonna be tough. So you need a community.
Speaker 2:Like, in in my group, we're getting happy, not sober. And that's our goal, and you shouldn't join if that's not your goal. You know?
Speaker 1:Getting happy, get not sober. I love the tagline there. And, you know, it is such a nuance thing to have to make a change with, and I think you've done a beautiful job of breaking it down in some simple steps with the the support that people need. So thanks for coming here. I have high regard, high very much respect what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Anybody listening, Colleen is the real deal. And if anybody wants to reach out or learn more, where can they go, Colleen?
Speaker 2:Emotionalsobrietycoaching.com is my website, and then I'm hangover whisperer on social media. And I have a podcast as well that you're gonna be on. Oh, you're live this week. It's it's called it's not about the alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yes. And it's a great podcast. And if anybody wants to go listen to a little bit more of my story and Colleen and I had to talk some more, check it out. So thanks so much for today.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Mike.
Speaker 1:This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number one alcohol moderation platform, having helped hundreds of thousands of people cut out more than 13,000,000 drinks since 2020. And in fact, an independent study showed that Sunnyside reduced alcohol consumption by an average of 30% in ninety days. And as one of our members shared, week. If you could benefit from drinking a bit less and being more mindful of when and how much you drink, head on over to sunnyside dot co to get a free fifteen day trial. You'll get access to everything that we offer, including tracking and planning tools, coaching from our experts, a vibrant community of people just like you, and the motivation and advice to stay on track with your health goals, all with no pressure to quit.
Speaker 1:That's sunnyside.co.
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