Creating Alcohol-Free Spaces w/ Sam Bail
Hey, everyone. And welcome back to another episode of Journey to the Sunnyside. I'm Mike Hartenbrook. And today, we're digging into alcohol free spaces. I'm joined with Sam Bale, the founder of Third Place Bar, who's leading the charge in New York City by creating these really cool alcohol free events where people can connect without the pressure to drink.
Speaker 1:Sam's got some amazing insights on what it takes to build these kinds of spaces, the challenges that she's faced, and even tips on how you can get started if this is something that you're interested in for your own community. So let's get into it with Sam Bale. Sam, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Hey, Mike. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:So Sam, who typically attends these third place bar events?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's a really broad audience, I would say. It's a great mix of people from, know, multiple generations, definitely, I would say the average is sort of late 30s, sorry, late 20s, early 30s. A lot of people who are just sober curious, or recently stopped drinking. A lot of people who are a little younger, maybe who just never had alcohol, just don't care for it. People who are sort of more like on my side of, you know, I've been drinking and partying for twenty years straight, and then and then I stopped because it didn't feel good anymore.
Speaker 2:It didn't feel healthy anymore. So really, yeah, broad, broad mix of people, I would say, And a lot of people are, you know, alcohol free completely. A lot of people are just happy to find a community and find people that don't revolve around drinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the reason I asked this before we get in, you explain it is I kind of want the audience to who we're talking about. Do you see also a lot of people that are mindful drinkers, maybe like on their, they're not wanting every single one of their outing be centered around alcohol?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. Like I said, there's a lot of people there who are just like really happy to find us and find a community of people. Yeah, whose social activities don't revolve around drinking. That is I would say that's probably the biggest group of people that come to my events. It's Yeah, mindful drinkers, people are sober curious, or people will even say like, I still drink, I just want an alternative to always going out and drinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. So tell us I'm going give you the stage here. Tell us what Third Bar events and everything about that we should know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Third Place Bar is a series of alcohol free social events in New York City. We launched in officially launched in January 2023. Doing a series of pop ups at a coffee shop that were basically just bar events. So no tickets, no activities, no nothing, you could let you just show up or some board games there and you can just treat it like a regular bar with a full menu of non alcoholic drinks. At some point, we shifted a little bit more into a event and activity based model.
Speaker 2:So since then, I've been hosting trivia nights, comedy shows, cocktail classes, alcohol free, obviously, non alcoholic wine tastings, wine and cheese pairings. I've done some collaborations with restaurants in New York City to do pop ups with non alcoholic cocktails have been really fun. Just I have another one coming up soon that I'm really excited about. And basically, mission of their place bars really to just bring, you know, alcohol free spaces and non alcoholic drinks to people in New York City, and make not drinking normal, as weird as that sounds, but basically normalize not drinking and make those people who choose not to drink or to drink less or be mindful drinkers, make them not feel like the weird ones, because they're the only ones not drinking at an event, but kind of just flip that whole thing upside down, and say, the default here at this event and in this space is to not drink, and you're normal, and you're welcome. And that's really cool.
Speaker 1:No, I love that. And I mean, it really should be all about the event and the people and not the ingredient. And so I love what you're doing with that. And so take me back when so this is so interesting. And I love how varied the amount of things that you have and the activities that you're doing.
Speaker 1:But you had this idea because it seemed to solve for a problem that you had yourself. Did you start talking to people? Did you start like, Hey, let's do this. Like, bring me back to where you just, where this all started.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really just, you know, I noticed the lack of alcohol free third places. So, you know, the the concept of the third place is basically your first place is home, your second place is work or school. And your third place is any other place outside of that where you foster social connections. It's a concept that's been popularized by sociologists in the 1980s. And that's especially I think since COVID has become more, you know, commonplace and has definitely gotten a lot more attention.
Speaker 2:And the idea is really that, you know, we have so many different third places or third spaces in our community, we have coffee shops, we have nail salons, hair salons, you know, used to be churches, which are still in a lot of places, maybe not necessarily in New York City, but definitely a lot of other places, there's spaces. You know, bars, obviously, bars, all these spaces, the basically the what they have in common is that they're very casual, they're very casual, they're very accessible, they don't necessarily require exclusive memberships, you don't need to necessarily schedule or plan anything, you can just stop by and say hi. And, you know, the people, you definitely know, there's gonna be someone there that you know, and, you know, in can have a chat with. So the idea of third place bar in the beginning was actually to have a brick and mortar, alcohol free bar, I literally just wanted to have a bar like my neighborhood dive bar, Just without alcohol, you know, the the dimmed lights, the jukebox, maybe a pool table, all that. I just started basically those events, those pop up events really just to get an idea of the space of the non alc industry of the sobriety space.
Speaker 2:When I had the idea of starting third place bar, I wasn't sober myself, I was still drinking. It didn't occur to me to quit drinking for good. I just did that as part of sort of the whole research thing. And I kind of just stuck with those pop up events, mostly because, you know, feasibility viability of a brick and mortar hospitality business in New York City is very, very, very challenging. Also, just around The US, you know, we see non alcoholic bars opening and closing.
Speaker 2:It just hasn't been super convincing for me yet to, like make the jump and do a brick and mortar business. But all these events and all the collaborations that I'm doing just open up a whole new world of, you know, reaching different audiences doing different things. And I do like the variety, like, as you pointed out, you know, I like to do lots of different things and lots of different collaborations. And I do think that also keeps it keeps it fresh, keeps it exciting for my audience.
Speaker 1:Well, as an entrepreneur, you know, my roots go back to that. So I always love hearing these journeys of, I'm going to solve for the problem that I have, and I'm going to figure out actually, there are a lot of people with the same problem. But, you know, I think a lot of people are wondering, you know, like, let's say I walked up to this, I didn't know it was a non alcoholic event or bar at the time or pop up. Would I even know? Is there a difference, you know, other than like, if, let's just say like, somebody gave me the non alcoholic beer, but I can't even tell the difference by the taste?
Speaker 1:Would I even know?
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that question. So obviously, I'm very biased because I host the events and I always have a lot of fun there. And but I would say, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell. I actually don't think like, obviously, it depends on the events. You know, I have community Hangouts where we talk about sobriety.
Speaker 2:So that aside, the drag brunch was completely unhinged. So we did a sober drag brunch. We did the trivia nights always get really crazy. Like people get very, very agitated. During the trivia nights, we did a movie in mocktails night where we had a movie trope bingo and people were yelling out during the movie.
Speaker 2:You know, the comedy shows are always super fun. And I go to a lot of regular comedy shows in New York City, I go to the sober like I host my own sober comedy shows. I can't tell the difference. We make sure we book really, really good comedians that are so funny that you do not need to drink. So honestly, I don't think those ever asked that question.
Speaker 2:Actually, I think if someone just like, watched the event with like, sound off, right, like, they wouldn't be able to tell that people aren't drinking. I am actually very, very, very convinced. And that's fantastic. That's the goal. Right?
Speaker 2:That is exactly it. Like the goal of third place bar is really to show people and that's also my whole mission as you know, me, Sam sharing my story of my own sobriety or, you know, quitting drinking is to basically just show people that alcohol can be very, very small in your life, or it can be even there. And things can still be the same. And that's something that is really, really important for me for people to realize that they don't have to complete change their life around. They don't have to do things differently.
Speaker 2:They're not going to be sitting at home in their pajamas watching Netflix, just because they quit drinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah. One of the things that I learned early on is that, you know, if you go to, if you stop drinking or you're not going drink for whoever's listening, whether you're mindful drinking and you're saying, I'm not going to drink tonight, or maybe you're taking a break, going to an event that has alcohol. You kind of have this self talk, like I'm not going to have a good time and all that. But if you get past that point and you, you let yourself have fun and you get into the event and you just have a great time, you'll come out of it and you'll realize, Oh, I just had a great time. And you know what?
Speaker 1:Can't even have anything to And then you like are surprised. And you almost realize that it's not about that. And if it is about that, maybe you don't even like that event or activity in the first place. But this, I love this because it gives people a low pressure, exciting fun space to just be and have fun without even really having to think about that in any way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the important thing for me is that people don't have to think about am I going to drink or other people drinking? What's the like, just taking alcohol out of the equation completely makes it so much easier for everyone because everyone's on the same page. We're all just no alcohol. We're all just not drinking. You're not going to question it.
Speaker 2:You're not going to be self conscious like, Oh, I'm the one who's sober here. And that to me is really the beauty of hosting these alcohol free events.
Speaker 1:So how much of the actual things that you're serving, I don't know if you guys have food, but obviously you have drinks, how big of a part of what you're doing is that centered around? Or is it more activities? Or maybe it's different in every single one.
Speaker 2:It's definitely different. It really depends on the event. So obviously, if I'm doing, you know, the food pop up at a restaurant, or like a non alcoholic cocktail pop up at a restaurant, that's very focused on the drinks themselves. And there might not even be a big social component. The whereas on the on the other hand, if I'm hosting just like a singles mixer, for example, you know, the the drinks are really just something to hold on to for people and to not be not go thirsty.
Speaker 2:But it's very much not about like discovering non alcoholic drinks. So I would say it really depends on the type of events I you know, obviously the wine tasting that I host is very much focused on the people who are very curious about non alcoholic beverages. A lot of the social events is just grab a drink, grab a drink from the fridge, help yourself and then come and do fun stuff with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fun. So I'm actually going to jump into your knowledge, expertise as a connoisseur of non alcoholic drinks. So what's your view on everything? Do you have favorite type in industry that you think is like emerging? Actually, just go free flow and tell us what you think.
Speaker 2:About non alcoholic drinks in general? Yeah. Okay. Oh, how much time do we have? Well, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:So overall, I think the space is growing very, very rapidly. And they're improving every single day, like almost every single day, there's a new non alcoholic product that is better than what we've seen before. I do think non alcoholic beers are fantastic. Again, I'm from Germany, you know, beer is part of my culture, my identity. And I'm hosting a sober Oktoberfest later this week.
Speaker 2:And I'm just so excited about all the fantastic non alcoholic beers. If you like beer, you can almost not go wrong, to be honest with any, at least like the the good like non alcoholic craft beers. And then non alcoholic spirits are very hit and miss. Would say there's some like aperitifs like the red bitters, Campari or Aperol, for example, those equivalents are very, very, very good. The same goes for non alcoholic Amaros, like, you know, a non alcoholic Burnett, for example, because their focus is not necessarily on the alcohol itself, but the key ingredient or the key flavor direction of those drinks is bitter.
Speaker 2:And bitter is very easy to make without alcohol, obviously. And then there are some favorites that I have, you know, there's a couple of like a non alcoholic rum, for example, by Rachel Zero Proof that I think is great and tastes really boozy and I put in everything hot toddies, tiki drinks, espresso martinis, that one is sort of the silver bullet for everything. And I think some non alcoholic gins are also great. So again, gin, the main flavor that you're looking for is juniper, you can make juniper flavor, obviously without alcohol, right? So so some of these that are have like very strong flavors of specific botanical ingredients are really, really, really good.
Speaker 2:I think as analogues for non alcoholic spirits, whereas others might be lacking a little bit, I still haven't found a non alcoholic whiskey that I would say really tastes like whiskey, for example. And then the you know, the Holy Grail of non alcoholic drinks, would say is red wine, like non alcoholic sparkling wines are fantastic already. The whites and roses are pretty decent. Every time someone asks me for a full body non alcoholic red wine, I get very apologetic. I actually feel bad to just be like, I'm sorry, there's nothing out there yet.
Speaker 2:There's some non alcoholic red wines like de alkalized red wines that are pretty decent. But, you know, yeah, someone asked me for like, yeah, I want like a really full bodied, you know, deep red wine. And I'm like, I am very sorry, give it another year or two. I'm 100% certain is gonna happen. But right now we're not there yet.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of my very broad overview of non alcoholic beverage space.
Speaker 1:No, that was a really good fast forward and in-depth at the same time. So I used to mostly drink wine and beer, but occasionally I'd have, Jack and 7UP. I don't know why I just like the taste, although I didn't really like hard alcohol. But I used to say if there's a Jack and Seven, and I'm sorry if anybody that's big on taste buds, if I'm breaking any rules here with that drink, that I would drink it as a soda. If there's a zero proof that whiskey that you like, let me know, because maybe I'll get that wish come true.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 1:before we go today, you know, I love that you're providing these spaces for people in your area, but let's say somebody doesn't necessarily have access or see anything, in their area. Well, actually let me take it one step back. What would you suggest to somebody where to start looking for these sorts of spaces? And if they don't find them, maybe you could give them a little entrepreneurial tip on what some things they could do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first thing I would say is I would look online on zero proof nation, for example, they have a great listing of alcohol free spaces, you know, non alcoholic bars, bottle shops and all that. So that is definitely a great option. Laura put together a really good map there. And then if there's nothing in your area, I would I would probably say if you want to start something yourself, it's a really, it's an interesting, almost sort of circular problem. Because, you know, you can always find a coffee shop that's open, where you can just like, meet up with people, right?
Speaker 2:You can you can always just say like, hey, let's have all the sober folks come together, or sober curious people or mindful drinkers come together at 03:00 on a Saturday afternoon at this coffee shop. My goal and I think the problem I am trying to solve is providing evening activities and providing an alcohol free space at night when there is nothing else to do, right? No, no one has problems finding alcohol free spaces during the daytime. So if you want to find something at night, where you can host an evening, like late event, that is going to be a little bit more challenging, I would definitely say, you know, start looking, talking to local businesses, or maybe someone has a community space in their building. Or maybe there is a non alcoholic bottle shop that would be interested in hosting or you know, a coffee shop that could be like could stay open later a tea house, any kind of alcohol free spaces that are happy to have an event or host an event in the evening, the financials of that are interesting in New York City, everyone trusts charge so much money for space rentals, I was quoted $1,500 for a five hour space rental of a coffee shop after hours, no staffing, no nothing, just use the space.
Speaker 2:And I said, there's no way I can, how am I going to get $1,500 If I have, let's say 50 people there, that's just not feasible. You know, and then also cover all of my other costs. So I would definitely say start small, really just start with like a gathering like a happy hour, maybe even do a daytime thing at a coffee shop, get your community together, build the community, and then find a space find find a local business or any other spaces happy to support where you can host an event a low cost or no cost. You know, maybe trying to approach some alcohol free drinks brands, or a lot of them are still very, very happy to sponsor drinks. It can get some ready to drink cocktails, for example, or some beer or some, you know, non alcoholic wine, and just start really small and focus on the community focus on, you know, providing a space for people to talk, maybe even having a facilitated conversation, versus like, oh, let's have this big blowout 200 people, you know, event with craft cocktails and everything, where, you know, you've spent months planning it.
Speaker 2:The goal, I think, for a lot of these things is really to build community and to provide a space for people to connect and have fun and have a conversation. And I always say, and as you just, you know, asked me earlier, for most of those social events, the drinks are secondary, the drinks are there and are nice. And they should be nice. And they should be good drinks. Don't just serve seltzer, obviously.
Speaker 2:But the drinks are really secondary. And it's about having a comfortable space, you know, facilitating a conversation, making people feel really welcome, and just working on building that community.
Speaker 1:Well, you for providing very easy place to start and actionable things that people can go after if they don't find it themselves. So it's a great resource. What was the resource again?
Speaker 2:Zeroproofnation.com.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a great one. I actually didn't know about that And start small is always a great piece of advice. You know, you can always build on that. All right. So before we go, I want you to be able to share anything that you're excited about.
Speaker 1:It can even be personal. Are you taking a trip? Are you working on a project? What do you want to talk about here?
Speaker 2:Oh, great question. I am I'm just very excited about, you know, everything that is yet to come for third place bar. I started running this business less than two years ago, I had absolutely no idea, whole space, the hospitality industry, sobriety, I was still drinking at that point. And things have just happened so quickly. I've done a lot of collaborations with really great partners with really great businesses, fantastic brands.
Speaker 2:I'm currently working on a collaboration with a theater here in the city because they have a play coming out about sobriety. I am, you know, working in collaboration with my literally one of my favorite restaurants here in the city. And I already have. So I think I'm just very, very excited about all the different spaces I can get into, to again, sort of normalize drinking and sorry, normalize not drinking.
Speaker 1:And,
Speaker 2:and just bring non alcoholic drinks and bring social events without alcohol to as many people as possible for them to feel welcome. And that's just something I'm extremely excited about to just, yeah, normalize, normalize not drinking.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm excited for you. And I think your mission is amazing. So thank you so much for coming on, sharing your time, sharing your insights. And this has been an incredible episode.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Mike. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:That's it for today's episode of Journey to the Sunnyside. Huge thanks to Sam Bale for showing us how she turned her experience into action by creating Third Place Bar, an alcohol free space for those looking to be more mindful with their drinking, or go full alcohol free. If today's episode got you thinking about your own social life and drinking habits, head on over to sunnyside.co and take our three minute quiz to get personalized insights. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at JoinSunnyside for daily tips, inspiration, and success stories. And if you like what you heard, hit that subscribe button so you don't miss out on any future episodes.
Speaker 1:And until next time, keep taking those small steps toward building healthier drinking habits that work for you.
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