Can Kava Replace Your Nightcap? w/ Billy Grady
In this episode, I sit down with Billy Grady, co founder and CEO of Cava Haven, one of the fastest growing alcohol alternatives in the country. We break down what kava actually is and why more people are turning to it as a way to relax, socialize, and mark the end of the day. Billy shares how a personal health experiment turned into a brand in over 1,000 retailers and bars nationwide. If you're curious about drinking less but still want something that helps you unwind, this conversation gives you a look at whether Cava might fit into your life. Alright, Billy.
Speaker 1:Thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Of course. Thank you for having me. I'm I'm excited to chat.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm really interested to get into Kava. But before we get into all of that, tell us a little bit about yourself and how Cabba Haven came to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. So I'm the cofounder, you know, CEO of of Cabba Haven. My my partner in life and now in business, Grace and I started the brand about twenty one months ago. So we're going into our our third year.
Speaker 2:Basically, the way it started, you know, her her and I have always kinda had this sober curiosity, if you will. And at one point, we had did this seventy five hard health challenge. So, you know, seventy five days, no drinking, working out twice a day, and there was a bunch of other stuff that you had to do during that period as well. And when we started it, we had originally thought, you know, hey. After these seventy five days, it'll be summer.
Speaker 2:We'll be drinking and boating in Chicago and all of that. But we'd actually felt, you know, amazing. And we were like, you know, we don't we don't really want to go back to drinking. We kinda miss, you know, the relaxing, socially uplifting effects of alcohol, you know, particularly that, like, nightcap. You know, you you've got a crazy hard work week, and, you know, you want something to just kinda bookmark the end of day.
Speaker 2:So we wondered, you know, is there, like, a natural ingredient out there that might deliver that? You know, we we tried everything in the supplement aisle that advertised for calm and relaxation and didn't really find what we were looking for. And around the same time, a friend of ours from Fiji had introduced us to kava, and we tried it the way it's traditionally made. Now are are you familiar with with kava at all?
Speaker 1:Just a little bit. So just pretend like I don't know anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's this root from these Pacific Islands, Fiji, Wanahatu, Tonga. It's been grown in Hawaii as well, and they've used it for thousands of years, you know, socially, but also ceremonially. So they will take this root, and they will, like, knead it through a cheesecloth,
Speaker 1:and
Speaker 2:it creates this kind of muddy, dirty water. And it tastes incredibly bitter and earthy all by itself. And it has this kinda novel mouth tingling sensation to it. But what follows is, you know, there's there's very strong relaxation and not like a sedation, if you will. You know, you're you're not going to fall asleep, but you just kinda feel, you know, the tension out of, like, your body and mind.
Speaker 2:And, you know, it was exactly what we were looking for, but we we the flavor left a bit to be desired for us. So at first, we took this Cobb extract, and we're mixing it with maple syrup and lemon juice. And we'd take that around with us and, you know, dose our mocktails at bars and restaurants. But as time went on, you know, we wondered if if there was something more to it. And so we actually formulated Cobba Haven as you see it today.
Speaker 2:So it's like a non alcoholic spirit alternative. It's got this lemon forward flavor with like a ginger bite on it. We officially launched April 2023. We're now in, like, a thousand retailers around the country and available pretty much everywhere online as well. So it's been a fun journey so far.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It sounds like it. I love that you took your some of the best ideas always come from your own experience and then your own pain points and then solving for that because you know that there are others out there just like you. So I love hearing this story. And so walk me through this because how do people use Kaba?
Speaker 1:How would they traditionally use Kaba? Let's start with that because I wanna get into the whole process, what it does, how it feels like. I know you gave us a quick overview, but I wanna dive in a little bit more. But, you know, how has it been used traditionally?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Traditionally, as as I mentioned, it's it's produced by taking the roots, which, you know, take up to five years to grow and then harvest. And they put it into this cheesecloth and knead it into, this big bowl. And then over on those Pacific Islands, they'll they'll actually drink it out of these coconut shells. Over there, there are actually more cava bars.
Speaker 2:So picture, you know, an alcohol bar, but instead of alcohol, they're just serving cava. They've got more of those over there than they do alcohol bars just because it's preference. It has nothing to do with, you know, alcohol not being available to them. And so it's used, you know, socially in settings like that over there and then also, you know, ceremonially. These villages will will gather and, you know, connect over ceremony, weddings, you name it.
Speaker 2:A a lot of the the occasions where in The United States, you know, we we might be drinking champagne and such. They they find themselves drinking Cava over there.
Speaker 1:Okay. No. That makes sense. So it's it's not new in any way. It's just kinda maybe people have seen it.
Speaker 1:I've even started seeing it more often lately, and that's why we're having these conversations because it's becoming people are seeking out these alcohol alternatives. So as far as the feeling goes, you know, a lot of people will turn to cannabis. For me, I just don't like cannabis. They and then some people will say, oh, it makes me relax. Some people gives them energy.
Speaker 1:As far as, like, the alcohol comparison, is there any, like, overlaps there as far as the feeling goes?
Speaker 2:I personally might describe the effect the peak effect of, like, maybe a one to two beer buzz, but even that might be a bit of a stretch and probably doing a disservice to Kava in in describing it that way because the effect is, you know, very unique to Kava. But ironically, kava does work on some of the same receptors that alcohol does. So it hits your body GABA receptors. And, you know, I'm I'm not a scientist, but from from my understanding, it doesn't bind to those receptors, which makes would make you, you know, at risk of, you know, more more inebriation, hangovers, things like that, some of some of the negative effects of alcohol. So, yeah, it it kinda touches on those same receptors, but not in the same exact way as alcohol.
Speaker 1:So take me back to, like, when you and your wife did it for the first time. Did you guys both feel it the same time with the same sensation? You know, how did that go?
Speaker 2:At first, we didn't love it. We're we we couldn't get past the tapes. And then as time went on and we grew, you know, more and more desperate for some kind of alternative, we're like, you know, let's let's give that another look. And it it was the second time around that we actually, like, felt, you know, Kava's novel effects and kinda looked at each other like, yeah. There there's something here.
Speaker 2:But it it wasn't until we were playing around in the kitchen and and trying to formulate, like, you know, our our own concoction, like I mentioned, the the lemon juice and maple syrup that we had tried so many different recipes, you know, at once that we were we got to a quiet where we were, you know, pretty buzzed or or rooted as as some people might call it.
Speaker 1:So I was talking to Katie Nessel, you know, a soberish mom, and, that many people listening to the show know. And she was telling me about, like, the tolerance that, like, a lot of people will not necessarily feel it the first time, and they might have to use it a few times to actually get the full effect. Tell me about that. Is true? Is that, like, maybe her experience?
Speaker 1:What about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's called reverse tolerance. And, you know, growing up, people said the same thing about cannabis and THC products as well. You know, the first time you try it, you won't get the effects.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I remember that.
Speaker 2:It it it it is particularly true with Kava in most instances. There are some people who try it and they're like, woah. You know, they they get the the relax effects from it. But in other instances, it does require what we call, you know, your receptors to kind of warm up and and familiarize their selves to it. So generally speaking, you know, our our kind of reverse tolerance playbook is, like, have a serving or two on night one, and then try it again, you know, the next couple of nights.
Speaker 2:And as time goes on, you know, a little bit goes a long way. So I've I've gotten to a point with Cava where, you know, I'm drinking at most nights of the week. And even just like that first sip by, like and and I don't know if it's, you know, part Pavlovian. I I don't think so or that the science would indicate it isn't. But, yeah, a couple of sips, and, you know, I'm I'm starting to kind of, you know, bookmark my day as I call it.
Speaker 1:I definitely can relate to that because that's pretty much when I was drinking more than I wanna do. That's as an entrepreneur, that's the only way I knew how to shut down. That was the only way opening that bottle was the only way I said, hey. It's time to stop working. You know?
Speaker 1:Otherwise, I'd sit on the couch, watch TV, and I'd be on this oh, then I'd pick up my laptop and start working again. And so, you know, people that are looking for an alternative to alcohol, it sounds like this is one of them. But maybe they have tried this before and didn't think that it wasn't because of that reverse tolerance thing. So do you feel like you have to educate people in many ways or reeducate them around Kava because of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I think there are three things that we really try and aggressively hit, you know, on on our customer's journey to trying the product, and that's, you know, rehearse tolerance. You know? If you don't get the effects right away, we promise you it's not false advertising. Just, you know, give give it a couple couple nights worth of trying, and you you should get there.
Speaker 2:And two, the the the novel mouth tingling sensation that you get from Cava. It's totally normal. It's not an allergic reaction. When we had first started Call of Haven, we actually thought that that would be a deterrent. You know?
Speaker 2:People would try it, and they'd be like, you know, I don't like the mouth tingling sensation. I'm out. But as time went on, it was something that was really welcomed by people. Like, they they kind of love and look forward to that that novel mouth tingling sensation. So that's something that we try and get ahead of as well.
Speaker 2:And the third is flavor. As I brought up earlier, kava is very, very bitter and earthy by itself. And we did, you know, everything in our power to use real ingredients and make it taste more approachable. But it it it does have, you know, a super unique flavor. And unlike many beverages, you know, that, you know, you advertise fruit punch or this flavor or that, Cava Haven has a unique flavor that is is very, very difficult to really put your finger on describing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Makes sense. Sounds like it's an acquired taste, and it might even be a taste that, some people just love because some people do love earthy things, and then some people, you kinda have to mask it. And it sounds like that's a lot of the that what you're working towards is to make it more universally palatable.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and part of the goal with the r and d and developing the formula as it is today was to achieve similar complexity and uniqueness that you an experience that you might get from traditional, you know, alcoholic, spirits. So, you know, if you if you take a shot of something and you kinda feel it burn afterwards, we incorporated ginger in there to kinda stimulate that burn. At the same time, you know, whiskeys and tequilas, especially mezcals, have these super, super complex flavor profiles. Some herbal, some bitter.
Speaker 2:So we tried to kind of work within that same realm as well. So way I describe kind of a flavored journey, it's like this initial kind of citrusy with a ginger burn and some undertones of, like, vanilla, cardamom, and and a hint of orange blossom as well. So super, super unique. It mixes super well into cocktails that typically call for, like, clear spirits. My favorite recipe is a Moscow mule.
Speaker 2:So instead of vodka, you use Cava Haven with some ginger beer and lime juice. It makes a killer spicy margarita. We love mixing it with, like, coconut and and pineapple as well. But my other favorite recipe, I I call the the key lime pie martini. So it's coconut cream, kava, even some lime juice, and then, like, a coconut sugar rim, and it's delicious.
Speaker 2:It's it's my, like, holiday dessert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. You got my cravings going already just to especially the Moscow Mule. I love those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it's it's delicious.
Speaker 1:Now, you know, we talked about some of the benefits, and people usually, they weigh the benefits, and then they start thinking, well, is there any downside? So as far as Kava goes, is there any type of person that maybe should be cautious with Kava, or maybe is there certain situations where it wouldn't be a right fit?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm so glad that you brought that up. There's a couple big misconceptions around Kava that we we run into a lot, and that's, you know, liver risk and, you know, addiction risk. So on the liver side of things, in the nineteen nineties, Kava was gaining a lot of momentum as, like, stress and anxiety medication. So an over the counter supplement being used to manage, you know, stress.
Speaker 2:And then there was a study done to confirm these benefits. And what the study found was, yes, Kava is incredibly effective for managing stress, supporting relaxation, but there was a rare but severe, liver risk associated with it as well. So Europe and some other countries, were just like, you know, outright, kava is banned. And The United States instead said, you know, we're we're go we're not going to make kava a food or beverage ingredient instead. It'll be restricted to just supplement.
Speaker 2:And on the side of supplement on the side of Kava products, you've gotta include a disclaimer about this rare but severe liver risk. As time went on, the World Health Organization, among other organizations, took another look at it and found that not only in that study, they were using a full plant extract, not just the roots. So they're using the leaves, the stems, etcetera. They were doing an alcohol based extract and administering it as like an alcohol tincture. So as we know, alcohol is not great for our liver.
Speaker 2:But more than that, they found that many of the participants were already taking some other you know, medications that had negative effects on their liver, and many of them were also drinking alcohol as well. So the World Health Organization went on to do their own studies and found that kava is perfectly safe, no risk of liver issues if it is a, you know, root pure root extract and it's a water or c o two extract. So that's something that we're constantly finding ourselves, you know, educating people around and and kinda rewriting some wrongs there. That said, as time goes on, you know, we we fully expect Cabba to be, you know, licensed or approved as, like, a food or beverage ingredient. The second thing is, you know, addiction risk.
Speaker 2:And and this so so kava is often in many products combined with Cradim, which is a leaf from South Asia, I believe. And Cradim actually works on your opiate receptors and by itself can be, for the reason that it acts on your opiate receptors, can be very addictive. So many people were getting addicted to these products that combine kava and kratom, and therefore, you know, kava was was associated with it, and people were saying, you know, I'm I'm addicted to kava. In a few of those instances, kava was the advertised ingredient on the front of the label. So these people would be like, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm addicted to this product, and it says kava on the front of the label. By itself, kava does not have, you know, addictive risk to it. So so those are the the two major things that that I like to call out.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you did because I was aware of actually both of those. And to the first point around the liver, I'm glad that you cleared that up. It is really interesting because many of us will want to put everything under a microscope as alcohol alternatives or maybe a supplement or or medication. And, of course, we always should, but it's also a little bit humorous to see people say, no. No.
Speaker 1:No. I won't touch that because of this one study, and then not even give two thoughts about opening a bottle of wine and polishing it off that evening. So, you know, you kinda gotta weigh even if there's, like you're not quite sure, you still gotta weigh, like, what are the risks here, and what are the things that I'm not even giving thoughts to that are proven to not only be damaging to the liver, but also highly addictive? And if the if this is something, you know, that you're considering, just like I think you gotta look at it with a grain of salt. You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I I drink about a bottle of Kava even every week, and I get you know, I do a full panel, you know, lab test, once a quarter or, you know, a couple times a year. And never once, have, you know, my my liver identifiers, you know, been flagged.
Speaker 2:So and and I'm generally, you know, one of those people who's super cognizant about what goes into my body. So so it doesn't doesn't faze me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Awesome. Now, I mean, all the benefits make me wanna go and try try it again because it's been a while since I tried it. Wait. Before I move on, though, I do wanna say it because I feel like it's a justice to anybody that's listening.
Speaker 1:The one company that I even saw him the other day in the gas station, the blue bottle, that's the one that does the in it and hides it behind the. Correct?
Speaker 2:Yes. True.
Speaker 1:Or at least if I if it calling you out to call them out, but, you know, I don't remember that brand, but I just know the bottle. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No. You you're on. It was it was a bit before my time or before my time in in the Cava space. But, yes, that that was my understanding. And I I think they do, you know, now have other products Yeah.
Speaker 2:That that don't don't don't include Kratom. But, yes, a good it's a good one to watch out for.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I would just say don't buy it at the gas station. We'll leave it at that.
Speaker 2:That's fair.
Speaker 1:Though Cobba Haven seems to have grown, like, really fast. So first of all, what do you think that you've done differently that resonates with most people?
Speaker 2:I I think it's really around the messaging around Cava. I I think when you look at a lot of the product on the marketplace that that do feature Kava, kind of a bit scary, little bit like, seems a little gray, if you will. But what we've really worked to do is to kind of take kava out of the shadows and and introduce people to it in a way that's like new and and different and clean and healthy. So what we really pride ourselves on, like, you look at our ingredient list, they're all ingredients that you can pronounce for one. So, you know, we're we're using real lemon juice, real ginger extract, vanilla extract, you name it.
Speaker 2:And we we took it upon ourselves to find the quality, you know, kava extract that we could produce as as well. So it's, you know, noble kava roots from Wanahatu, extracted VSD o two. So just about as pure as you can get. And, yeah, Grace who who heads up our marketing, worked with some really great partners, Katie Nessel, Soberish Mom included, who have done an incredible job in in spreading the word around Calva and, you know, its benefits as, an alcohol alternative. So it's been a it's been a fun journey so far.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like good, clean ingredients with full transparency on what you got.
Speaker 2:And I think the positioning with it as well. You know, a lot of these other Cava products are just like, you know, this is Cava or just like general beverages, but we we have really found a great use for it as, like, an alcohol alternative, you know, hence, the the spirit format of it. Yeah. So you you can spit meat. You can spit on the rocks, mix it into a cocktail.
Speaker 2:You know, we're in about 500 bars and restaurants around the country, so it's awesome to be able to go into these places and get, you know, a functional nonalcoholic cocktail. So, yeah, it's been great.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I noticed that. And so it looks like you held up the bottle. It almost looks like an alcohol bottle there that could fit in a bar. And yep.
Speaker 1:And as you said, you're in bars and restaurants. That's that's a really unique take. So what where did that come from? Were you like, we are going straight to these places, the service industry to be able to distribute that way? Like, where'd that idea come from?
Speaker 2:Again, it kinda came from, like, the you know, what we were talking about earlier, like, this pain point that then became a passion. I call it, you know, the the pain to passion journey, and I feel like some of the best ideas in businesses are are kind of built on that journey. But, you know, for us funny story that I'll add here. We we had customers that were like, hey. Can you please get this into this restaurant or that restaurant?
Speaker 2:And we had one customer in particular who, an effort to sneak Cabba Haven into restaurant, they had cleaned out a ketchup bottle, poured Cabba Haven into it, and then at the restaurant, they'd, like, squirted into their drinks to try and be, you know, nonchalant. So it's kinda the same thing point that we were having. You know, we we we'd go out to dinner at these places. And, you know, a lot of these places do have some solid nonalc option these days. They've got, you know, great nonalc beers.
Speaker 2:They've got, you know, nonalcoholic cocktails often featuring some of these other nonalcoholic spirits. But, you know, we wanted the the the functional aspect of a drink and particularly cava. So we just kind of approached some of these places like, hey. You know, we we love coming here. Any way you can feature this on the menu?
Speaker 2:And with with time and success in one account, we would take that to the next account and and share that with some of our, you know, distributor partners, and the the dominoes kinda fell from there.
Speaker 1:You just took the words out of my mouth. I was about to say, yeah. You gotta align the dominoes. You can get you gotta work really hard for that first one. You knock it over.
Speaker 1:You get a couple more. Then all of a sudden, you know, you're knocking them all the way down the line. So I love hearing that. How's the reception been? Like, I would imagine that you got some pushback, but then also some people really excited.
Speaker 1:What was that like?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I I think generally, I'd say overwhelmingly interested and excited and positive around it. It does vary a bit market by market. You we've noticed, you know, on on the coasts, in Colorado, and in some of these more progressive health conscious markets, the reception is better than, you know, some of these more Middle America types of markets that are still coming around to nonalc.
Speaker 2:You go to some parts of the country, and their their non alk offerings might be limited, you know, Coke products, soda water, maybe an O'Douls. But then you go out, you know, Denver or Seattle, LA, New York, and they have incredibly extensive non elk menus. And some of the most progressive places, you know, Soho House, which is a partnership that we just launched in Chicago, they actually distinguish between, you know, alcohol, non alp, and now they've got a functional subcategory of of drinks on their cocktail menu. So it really varies. But, yes, the the reception has been very, very positive.
Speaker 2:And, you know, like many of your listener, so many people across the country are, you know, looking to reduce or eliminate alcohol from their lives, and, you know, Cava Haven and products like Cava Haven really helped, you know, support that.
Speaker 1:No. It's very cool story. So, you know, we talked a little bit about the effects, and I think we were more, like, talking about in a home setting. So in the in a bar, in a social setting, does it make you more social? Does it make you like, what's that effect?
Speaker 1:Do people feel like, hey. Cava's, like, kinda in a a social elixir the way that alcohol is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. My experience, you know, my experience with the product, it's like one to two drinks kind of, you know, makes me feel more relaxed, and then three or more drinks makes me feel a little bit more social. And, you know, anything more than that just kind of sustains that effect for me versus, like, I'm not going to become more relaxed or more social. That said, I and, again, not not a scientist, but from from my experience with it, it seems like it just kind of takes the social edge off. So, like, as a product of, you know, supporting your relaxation, you might not be as, you know, nervy in social settings, if you will.
Speaker 2:So it it's definitely a crutch for me at, you know, weddings and other social occasions to have, you know, my my coffee and cocktail to just kind of, you know, take the edge off.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, we all wanna take the edge off. That's for sure. And so I'm I'm for anything that makes that a little bit easier and also tastes good. So I'm I noticed that your products, you have one core product that you guys really concentrate on.
Speaker 1:Is that by choice or design, or are you guys thinking about expanding? You know, just talk about about the product itself.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. We're we're really just focused on on the one product, you know, the the spirit product and and the liquid within that, and, you know, trying to make that the very best that it can possibly be. At at some point, we may introduce, you know, travel size. So you you can bring it on on the airplane or you can bring it into concerts that that might not, you know, have Cobb Haven at least not yet and things like that.
Speaker 2:But we're really just focused on the one product right now.
Speaker 1:Are they gonna be in the little mini style like the liquor bottle? The small version? Because you have the big version in a liquor style.
Speaker 2:Yes. Little shooters as they call them in the liquid in in the liquor world.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah. Fun. Alright. So if anybody's listening and they're interested about Kava, they're interested in Kava Haven, you know, can you tell us a little bit about where they can go or anything that you guys have coming up?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. So our website, kavahaven.com, you know, you can purchase it online. You can also visit our store locator on our website. And, again, we're we're in a thousand retailers around the country and adding more every day.
Speaker 2:So you should be able to find something local to you or even find a bar or restaurant local to you that might serve it. We're also available on on Amazon, TikTok shop. We recently launched some on walmart.com. So we're trying to, you know, make it as as available as we can. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I'm really happy for all the success that you've gotten so far. I'm really appreciative for coming and sharing, basically giving us a Cava one zero one here. And if anybody's interested in checking it out, go to the website, and I'm actually gonna order some. Give it a try.
Speaker 2:Beautiful. Thank you. I I appreciate the opportunity to be here.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Billy. I appreciate it.
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