Anticipating Challenges When Sober Curious w/ Hilary Sheinbaum
Welcome back to Journey to the Sunnyside. I'm Mike Hardenbrook. And today, we're diving into a topic that's crucial for anyone on a mindful drinking or dry journey, anticipating challenges and building resilience. Our guest, Hilary Scheinbaum, author of Going Dry A Workbook and the Dry Challenge is here to share her expertise on navigating the obstacles that can come up when drinking less like social pressures, cravings or just staying motivated over time. With her experience as a journalist and advocate for the sober curious movement, Hillary brings practical insights to help us prepare for these bumps in the road.
Speaker 1:Let's get into it with Hillary. Okay. Today, I'm here with Hillary Sheinbaum, and we are gonna be talking about some of the challenges when it comes to adjusting, whether it be moderation or taking a break with alcohol. So first of all, Hillary, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:What do you think some of the common challenges are that you see maybe in your personal experience or with others that you're around when you start to drink less or take one of these dry challenges?
Speaker 2:I think it's so funny. The first thing that comes to mind is having, like, less tolerance for, like, drunken wild behavior that's surrounding you. I think it just I don't know why. I just had, like, a flashback of, like, being in my late twenties and doing a a dry January and having people who are just, like, outrageously wasted and me being like, no. I'm good.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go home. And just like, I still wanted to be social, but I just I think that was one of them. I think it was I
Speaker 1:think there's a time limit too. Like, all of a sudden, like, going to a bar for, like, 5 hours is not fun. It's your you
Speaker 2:know? Yeah. I think no. I I wanna I mean, even now, like in my thirties, like, I don't wanna I don't know if I wanna be anywhere for 5 hours. But I think some other challenges is that or that like alcohol is everywhere.
Speaker 2:I think that it has made its prominent one in all sorts of, you know, patients like Wednesday and birthdays and, and it is often what people turn to when they are mourning or they lose a friend or a partner or there's a death. And I think that or a job. And I think that alcohol is just, it's just everywhere. It's part of not just social activities, but, like, watching a sports game or it's part of kind of the dating experience. And so I think that can be a challenge for many reasons.
Speaker 2:And I think, like, I'm engaged now, but when I was dating, I think that it was often a topic of conversation. If I was dating somebody in the month of January, I'd have to say like, listen, I'm not drinking this month. And either they were cool with that and they were respectful, or if they tried to fight me on it, I kinda realized, like, they weren't the person for me. Because if you're not gonna support something that I'm not pushing on you or that doesn't really affect you, it's really what I'm consuming for my own reasons or not consuming for that matter, then that was, like, an easy red flag spotter. So I think, yeah, there are definitely a lot of challenges.
Speaker 2:I think that whenever you are doing something new or kind of going against the grain, there's always gonna be a little bit of pushback.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that's good to just sorta anticipate that it's not gonna be all smooth sailing. And so so when you're doing something new like this, what thoughts do you have around preparing for challenges or even maybe listing them out before they happen and potentially removing some because they're not actually challenges. You just built it up in your head. Like, oh, I'm not gonna have friends anymore because I'm gonna give up drinking in January kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that there are ways to, like, prepare that are realistic, like maybe removing the alcohol from your fridge or your bar cart or, like, hiding it or just not making plans that are alcohol centric. I think in other ways, just having the ability to have conversations with people like your friends or your family or your significant other about like why you're not drinking. Or again, you don't have to have a reason, but I think that just kind of sometimes people build it up to be more than it is. And I think, again, like, if somebody's not supporting you, it's it might be a good time to reevaluate the relationship or the friendship and take a step back and say, like, why is this person not supporting me?
Speaker 2:But, yeah, in general, I think that a lot of things are are manageable, and I think that friendships absolutely sustain dry January's many times over. So it's just a matter of, like, having the confidence to have that conversation and just being your honest true self.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'd like to get into a little bit more about preparing for social situations or relationships, especially right now with the holidays. Is there an instance where you actually had to take a step back from a relationship, friend, acquaintance
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Where
Speaker 1:yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that there were friendships that I I just definitely saw less of these people because I realized that all all that we had in common or a majority of what we had in common was like going out or like grabbing drinks. And there wasn't much more to the friendship besides that. And so unfortunately, we're I guess fortunately in some instances, like those people are not consistent parts of my life or, like, are not part of my life anymore, and it's there's no bad blood.
Speaker 2:It's just sometimes you just outgrow friendships or you realize that there's less to them than you there were, and that can be really hard, right, for a lot of people. I think though that it definitely makes time and space for other people in your life that you definitely can share more with and have more common with. And that doesn't mean that, like, the the new people in your life are sober or, like, they don't drink or whatever it is. But, you know, outside of not drinking, like, there's so much to people. And I think that you can find common things, whether that's sports or art or whatever it is that you enjoy doing in your waking hours.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. I like that. And, I mean, people are continuously growing. I mean, this is said a lot for in relationships, especially married couples, but, you know, you're growing.
Speaker 1:You're into new people, and you continually having to fall back in love with each other and then reinvent each other. And I think the same goes, obviously, to a different ex extent with friends. But sometimes you're just growing in a different direction. So but the thing is that it's hard to see that when you're in the moment. So I'm gonna ask you now that you're stepped out of the moment and further down the road.
Speaker 1:Looking back, do you feel good about that? Like, does it feel like, oh, it was a little hard at the time, but now, I mean, I made the right decision to stick to what I was doing and choose the people that wanna support that.
Speaker 2:Oh, a 100%. I think that it was so much more clear to me, like, when I wasn't drinking, what especially, like, let's take, for example, like, on dates. Right? I think that when you are under the influence and you might miss some red flags, like, maybe you're missing some, like, verbal cues or, like, even just body language that you otherwise would be, like, your skin would be, like, you'd be crawling in your skin, like, just like, ah, like, this is so bad. But under the influence, you're like, oh, maybe I just, like, misunderstood or, like, I missed something.
Speaker 2:And I think that, like, when you're not drinking, whether it's with, like, a potential romantic partner or with, like, a friend, and they're saying things that are just, like, not connecting with your, like clean and sober mind. Like, you're just like, oh, this doesn't feel good. So I think both in the moment and afterwards, I, there aren't like too many regrets. I think if you make a decision, like, you can always make another decision. I also I'm not suggesting that you, like, cut people out of your life, like, in January.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying, like, you might see less of them and, like, that's okay. And, like, you can continue to evaluate your friendships and your relationships as time goes on, which is, like, what I did. I wasn't like, bye, guys. Like, you drink and I don't. Like, we're no longer friends.
Speaker 2:But I think just, like, having the experience of a a couple of conversations and hangouts where I was just not as comfortable in the presence of these people that kind of just has had influenced my decisions to make time for them again. So that kind of how things went.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't see that you being like, I'm just gonna cut that person off.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, feel it.
Speaker 1:You just seems like you lean into the relationships that sort of support where you're going and maybe take a step away from the other ones.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that can be said about anything. Right? Like, I mean, everybody has different life stages. Sometimes, like, you're closer with your friends when you're single and they're single.
Speaker 2:And then other times, like, I don't have kids, but I imagine that people who are having babies at the same time, they bond over things like that. And so it's like, if you have a drink in your hand and I don't, like, we might not just be speaking the same language right now. Whereas, like, when I was not drinking and my friend was not drinking, like, we were bonding over those experiences too. So, yeah, I think it just depends on where you are.
Speaker 1:I like the quote that you said, which was, if you make a decision, you can make another decision. Yeah. It's so nothing has to be set in stone, and you certainly can keep can change your mind in certain ways. So let's get back into the social setting. So you talk a little bit about how you can respond to people and surround yourself with the right people.
Speaker 1:But let's say you've done all that and you're still in a social situation and you're like and and you're not drinking at this time, whether it be a dry day or a dry month, and you're really starting to get those cravings. You're starting to talk yourself in into it maybe. What do you, suggest in those situations?
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like that's when you phone a friend. That's when you, like, text your friend who's, like, in it with you, and you're just like, okay. I need to vent, or I'm having this tough situation. And I think that you can just communicate with them and be honest about, like, your feelings. And I think the response there is typically going to be something like, oh, like, you you're doing great.
Speaker 2:Like, keep it up. Like, whatever the case may be. I also think, like, if you walk yourself through a scenario of, like, a night out where you feel like you might be tempted, I think it's important to just, like, establish your boundaries. Right? So, for example, say, like, you're arriving at a bar.
Speaker 2:Like, are you going to be standing up at the bar? Maybe you wanna go and be seated, or or you're not gonna be asked if you wanna drink several times in one sitting, or maybe you grab a nonalcoholic beverage so that you are sipping something so your hands are occupied and that sort of thing, and nobody's really, like, asking you questions. I think that there are definitely ways that you can prepare in advance. And even one being, like, maybe you're the designated driver, so you're the responsible party. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think there's just there's some things I think that you can do. I mean, if you do happen to have a drink for whatever reason, that's when you're doing a dry January, obviously, this is not for people who are in recovery. But for dry January participants, like, if you have a drink, you can start again the next day. Like, just because you had one drink or one night of drinking doesn't mean that, like, your entire month is, like, a wash. Like, he you can just call it a dry Jan a damp January or a demi sec, like, medium dry January and just, like, continue on or just, like, that's it.
Speaker 2:Like, like, get back on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love that. I mean, leaving a little room for we're all human making mistakes is great. And I couldn't agree more on the support system and the power that is. But the problem is for some people, even though we've talked about that the stigma is dropping, that more people are doing this to accept it, whether you're doing it for health or performance or just to be the best version of you or to reset habits, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Like, people are not asking as much. However, people are still hesitant to maybe open up to others that, hey, I'm thinking about doing this or that. And maybe it's not January, maybe it's February or or wherever they are. Do you have some suggestions on to get over that fear and maybe approach those relationships?
Speaker 2:I think that, like, if you're looking for support and and you're not finding it within your, like, inner circle of friends, which you should because regardless, like, these are people who care about you. So even if they don't agree with you, even if they still wanna drink, like, I think at least somebody will be like, that's great. Like, you should do that. Sometimes it takes a few people. I got lucky, and it was the first person that I asked.
Speaker 2:But I also know that, like, had I asked a certain group of friends, they would have rolled their eyes. And another group of friends would have said, oh my gosh. We're doing this. This is gonna be the greatest thing ever. So choose widely who you share your journey with.
Speaker 2:I also know that, like, there are so many different ways to connect with people these days, whether that be, like, social media or even, like, finding threads on Reddit where, like, people are experiencing similar things to you in terms of, like, giving up alcohol or just finding, like, groups in your community. Like, it's a wonderful opportunity to connect with individuals that you might not have connected with before. So, yeah, I think just keep looking for your people is what I'm trying to say. I think you can also do your own. Like, if you're strong independent person and, like, you don't wanna tell anyone about anything and you just wanna keep to yourself, like, you can absolutely do that too.
Speaker 2:I think you gotta do whatever's gonna get you to the finish line and and make you the most successful without losing your mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, there are, if somebody wants more of a level of anonymity, maybe they don't, maybe it's too close to home to talk to their closer friends. Yeah. There are, like you said, there's plenty of groups.
Speaker 1:We have the mindful drinkers group on Facebook where a lot of people find community there. And it doesn't even have to be community around alcohol necessarily. It can be community that's focused on other things where you can put your focus and still connect with other people. But it is great to have the one the other one where we do encounter those challenges that we were talking about where it could be a friend kinda scenario. So I wanna move to your workbook a little bit here.
Speaker 1:And tell us a little bit about, like, are there things that people could work through that you've kind of come up with ideas that worked for you specifically on maybe strengthening their resilience or reaffirming their commitment?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think, again, going back to, like, just documenting your feelings and your hours of sleep, I think, are really helpful. You don't necessarily need to, like, jot that down in a notebook every day. I use, like, a smartwatch that, like, will compute all of that information. And even now, like, during a non dry month, like, I can see the difference in my sleep even if I have, like, a half of a glass of wine versus, like, completely, like, no drinks for 5 days or 10 days or 3 weeks or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:It's like, woah. Like, that is scary. But, yeah, I think, like, having that data available to me is very insightful, and I think that, like, people can go back and really say, like, okay. Like, that made such a difference. So that's a big one.
Speaker 2:I think there's just also, like, a lot of journal opportunities in the workbook that are just, like, really reflective that maybe things are, like, kind of posed in in ways that you haven't been thinking about or, like, that sort of thing. So, I think, like, there's just a lot of good stuff in there. There's also some nonalcoholic, like, recipes too. So you can entertain some friends. And I think and that's also, like, kind of off topic, but, like, I think that's, like, a big just pocket of misinformation as people are like, oh, with, like, nonalcoholic beverages or high in calories, and they're not gonna taste as good.
Speaker 2:Like, first of all, the ingredients in cocktails is what's making your beverage taste good because alcohol on its own is not usually taste good. And secondly, especially like nonalcoholic wines, they are far few calor fewer calories, Like and same things with, like, any cocktail. Like, that you're eliminating at least a 100 to, like, a 150 calories per cocktail when you're drinking without alcohol.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. It's crazy because you look at the, like, Michelob Ultra is, like, a 100 calories. Maybe the lowest is 99, but then you pick up, like, athletic brewing, which is an IPA or whatever, and it's, like, 45 calories.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, definitely. It's it's wild. Like, you can I think, like, the don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure, like, in a glass of, like, neonato alcohol removed, the entire bottle is probably, like, fewer calories than, like, an average glass of wine?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And also the alcohol calories aren't even are different. So it's even higher than number that you
Speaker 2:see there. Exactly. And no hangover, and then you won't be, like, chasing greasy food at 2 AM and, like, all the thing. All the things. Because I always say nobody craves a kale salad when they're drunk.
Speaker 1:This is true.
Speaker 2:Nobody's making healthy diet decisions.
Speaker 1:No. So let's end it. I wanna move into something around that you kind of alluded to, which was great around, like so let's say somebody doing dry January and maybe they had a slip up, pick back up, change your goal, keep moving forward. So what advice do you have for bouncing back from slip ups when they happen?
Speaker 2:I think, like, if you just need to be kind to yourself. You need to realize, like, everyone's human here too. I think a a big misconception is, like, if you do during January, like, you have to be perfect. And I think that when you set the standard of perfection, there's a lot of pressure that comes with that. And I think that people can often feel disappointed if they are not a 110%.
Speaker 2:But the reality is, like, if you are drinking less at any point in time, whether it is January, February, I'm not finding the rest of the months, but any time of year, if you are drinking less than that is a positive. So if you usually drink, like, every weekend or Friday Saturday nights, every weekend of the month. And then suddenly you're drinking once or you're drinking fewer units. I think that is an improvement. And so during January, although, like, I wish that I could say like, everyone, like, should be a 100% and, like, you'll feel great.
Speaker 2:The reality is, like, a lot of the time that's not that doesn't happen. But I think the people overall, like, recognize how alcohol is affecting them in in some way during dry January or when they're giving up alcohol for any month or any period of time. And so that's a win in my book. As long as there's kind of, like, a recognition or a reduction, it's definitely a success.
Speaker 1:Yes. Awareness and flexibility within that. So so I wanna hit you with one last question here, and this is a really important question. I was reading over your bio, and you said that you one day would like to have a certain kind of dog at named a certain name. What was that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I, I want a teacup Maltese named Godzilla. I just think it would be so cute. I think if we end up getting a dog, I don't know. Because every time I say this people they're like, but those little baby like dogs, they get like really sick and they have problems.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, oh, that would hurt my heart so much. So, yeah, I can always dream
Speaker 1:of that. What what's the name
Speaker 2:again? Godzilla.
Speaker 1:Godzilla.
Speaker 2:Like, a teacup, Maltese, like, a little mini like, it looks like a little, like, stuffed animal named after, like, a big dynamite, like, dinosaur lizard thing.
Speaker 1:Well, I love it. Keep me updated on that. But thanks from Motilary for coming on today. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:That's a wrap for today's episode with Hillary Scheinbaum on anticipating challenges and building resilience. Huge thanks to Hillary for sharing strategies to help us stay motivated and prepared along our mindful drinking journey. If today's episode got you thinking about how to strengthen your own journey, head over to sunnyside.co for a free 15 day trial. If you took any value away from the show, it would mean the world if you can rate and review the show on whatever podcast you are listening on, and join us on Instagram at join sunny side for more tips and inspiration. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on Journey to the Sunny Side.
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