Journey to the Sunnyside

mike: 00:00

Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, the podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and, of course, inspire your own mindful drinking journey. Ann Marie Chaker spent twenty seven years as a journalist at the Wall Street Journal. But behind the success, she was struggling. After a series of personal losses, alcohol became her way to cope until a chance encounter in a hotel gym changed everything. In this episode, she shares how strength training helped her break free from extremes, transform her mindset, and rebuild her life.

mike: 00:34

We also dive into insights from her upcoming book, Lift, where she challenges the skinny ideal and explores why building strength is the real key to confidence and longevity. If you've ever struggled with moderation, fitness, or finding balance, this conversation will inspire you to rethink what's possible. Alright, Ann Marie. Thanks for coming on today.

anne marie: 01:01

Thanks, Mike. Nice to see you.

mike: 01:03

Well, this is gonna be a fun conversation, and we're gonna get into a lot of different topics because you can talk on some really great experience in very unique angles on that experience. And you had a career, which is really cool, as a journalist with The Wall Street Journal. But now you're a professional bodybuilder, so a little bit of a transition there. So can you take us back to this transition? Where were you in life as far as The Wall Street Journal, and how did this big change happen?

anne marie: 01:35

Well, thank you for having me. This is, this is a real treat to be on here with you. So, yes, I was at The Wall Street Journal for twenty seven years. Only place I ever worked, really, as an adult. Started right after college as an administrative assistant and kind of fell in love with the place, wanted to learn, and grew into all kinds of like junior reporting roles and later heavier report porting roles.

anne marie: 02:01

And then kind of just got into feature writing and they gave me a pretty long leash to write about whatever I wanted. I wrote a piece about my midlife journey into competitive body building in 2020. And that piece got a lot of attention. It was about how my life had taken kind of a rough turn. I, you know, a number of things, I just had my second child and was struggling with postpartum depression.

anne marie: 02:32

And around that time, my father passed away suddenly, and then my marriage ended. So it was, like, within a span of months, it was boom, boom, boom. All these terrible things had happened. And I'd never been much of a drinker. I never really liked the taste of it.

anne marie: 02:51

Somebody had suggested like just to take a little half glass of wine before I went to sleep at night to take the edge off. And so I started doing that and that half a glass became a full glass and then it became two glasses and then it developed into more and more and more. And then I was pretty addicted and I was, drinking as medicine basically all the time. So I knew I had a problem and just wasn't feeling well at all. So, what happened was I, in the course of this, I took my daughter to an ice hockey tournament.

anne marie: 03:28

I was coaching her ice hockey team at the time. And when, you know, I was in the car with my mom and the kids, and all I could think about on this drive was, like, when I was gonna get my next drink. It was scary. Like, it was I knew I like, feeling this way was uncomfortable. When we got to the hotel, I unloaded our equipment and my stuff and went to a, the, there was a fitness room at the hotel.

anne marie: 03:56

And in this fitness room, there was this woman and she looked amazing and she was lifting barbells and dumbbells and doing things with bands that I'd never seen before. And she would, you know, she was sweating. And I thought to myself, whatever this woman is doing, like, I want that, give me whatever this woman is doing. So I, it wasn't because of what she looked like so much. It was how strong she looked and badass, and she looked like she knew what she was doing.

anne marie: 04:25

She was very comfortable with all the different weights, and she had a timer. And, so I went up to her and I kinda said, what's your deal? What's your story? What what do you do? And she said, oh, I do, you know, bikini competition.

anne marie: 04:37

And I thought that sounded really weird. And so I was very, like, judgy, like, what is that like beauty pageants? And she's like, no. No. No.

anne marie: 04:43

No. I do you know, I compete in the sport of bodybuilding, and I have a coach and macros and dah dah dah. So I was thinking to myself, I look terrible. You look amazing. I think I have a drinking problem.

anne marie: 04:56

So I said, give me the name of your coach and, you know, and so it went from there. When I got home, I reached out to this coach, not because I wanted to do bodybuilding, but just to kinda get a hold on nutrition and, you know, I was I wasn't eating well. I wasn't exercising at all, and that's where it started. I just kinda had this online coach and started exercising and eating eating more and and better and started feeling better right away. And I I naturally stopped drinking.

anne marie: 05:24

That was the thing. Like, it wasn't ever, like, I must stop. Like, just because I felt so good, I just kind of, like, well off of it. Yeah. That was a long story, but No.

mike: 05:35

Not at all. I think it's great. And I think it's really relevant because it all ties in together your journey both as a professional bodybuilder, but also your journey with alcohol are extremely linked to each other. And talking about that word extreme, I think people do think about bodybuilding as being extreme, and then sometimes the way people drink are extreme. And you even talked about that you're wired for being extreme, whether it's in work or fitness or even drinking.

mike: 06:08

Yeah. When did when did you recognize this pattern in yourself?

anne marie: 06:12

It's a great question. I think I think, yeah, part of the reason why I was drawn to bodybuilding was because so like all in, right? It's so, you know, it's about the nutrition, training and like perfection, like achieving some, you know, state of like, you know, perfect body, dah, dah, dah. So I I've always kind of been drawn to, like, an intense mindset. Like, even, you know, in journalism, like, it's reporting as a kind of job that suck.

anne marie: 06:47

It's it's all encompassing. Like, you're not it's not like a nine to five job that's easy to put away. It's like, it's all the time and it's it's part of your identity. And so that's sort of like, I've always been sort of drawn to very intense things. So it's only been in more recent years that I've really recognized that and tried to find moderation, which is a challenge for me.

anne marie: 07:15

And so I approach that as almost its own challenge. Like it's easy for me to find the extremes. That's, that's a piece of cake. But what if I approached moderation as its own challenge? And so very recently I've been exploring, you know, meditation.

anne marie: 07:34

And I've always been kind of like, oh, meditation. That's for, that's for sissy. Like, I'm I don't do that. But it's actually, like, surprised me. And I'm I'm not that great at, like, I just five minutes a day, but I do take the time and it's something that has really helped me kind of slow down and be mindful.

anne marie: 07:58

And I think that's something that is in drinking too. Like, it's I I haven't like, when I'm when I'm in prep for bodybuilding season, like, right now, I'm in that prep period of twelve I'm twelve weeks out for my next competition, so I'm not drinking. But even when I'm in the off season and I can be a little bit more relaxed about what I consume, I still drink, but I approach it with much more of a mindset of moderation, careful thoughtfulness, and just kind of slowing down. And so I it's really something that I've been exploring, not with just with drinking, but with all aspects of my life just in the last, I would say, year or so.

mike: 08:46

Yeah. I mean, one of the great things that I wanna get into in this conversation and that you've talked about and that comes up in my mind as we're talking is that, first of all, you talk about how you were struggling with alcohol, and then all of a sudden you found this new thing that you'd never been introduced to in your life. And and it basically replaced the all the time and all the habits and made it too difficult for you to basically be able to drink the way that you were if you wanted to do this new thing, which is a great testament to say you don't just stop doing something

anne marie: 09:20

when

mike: 09:21

it comes to habit change. You have to replace it with something that you're passionate about that brings you joy. And so that's what it sounds like you made this transition. But then on top of that, though, as you're talking about moderation, is that ex when you go to extremes now those work for some people. When you go to extremes, they're not always sustainable for a lifetime.

mike: 09:41

You know? There might be cycles of that. And so you going to these extremes also shows that, like, maybe, you know, for the long term, I need to find something in the middle, at least in the interim when I have to go to extreme when we're talking about fitness. But I love this I love this topic. I love your background because I think it shows a lot of the things that I talk about specifically around habit change on my solo episodes in this way.

mike: 10:06

And so let me talk to you about this. When you were transforming physically and getting into bodybuilding, what did you notice about patterns in other areas of your life, including drinking that started to change?

anne marie: 10:19

So bodybuilding taught me a lot about nutrition, which, you know, just so susceptible to, like, marketing trends. Like, you know, when I was in college, it was everything was fat free and, like, you think you're doing the right thing, but you don't really know. And, like, you know, and then

mike: 10:39

That's all of us.

anne marie: 10:41

Yeah. Yeah. And, like, when I became a mother, it was just like, oh, all out the window that, like, your priority is, like, feeding babies, trying to get toddlers to eat and obsessing about, like, what they like and don't like. And so you don't think about yourself. And I was just kind of eating, if anything, like the stuff that whatever came off the plates.

anne marie: 11:07

And it but, like, I would joke that I was like a human vacuum cleaner for my toddler's plate, which is funny, but it wasn't funny because it was like treating my body literally like garbage. I started working with my bodybuilding coach. One of the things that surprised me was that I wasn't eating enough. Like, my whole life, I thought, like, you know, women should be thin, and I should be eating less and dieting. And and it was actually the reverse was that I wasn't eating enough.

anne marie: 11:38

So we bumped my calories up way up to pretty close to 2,000 calories. A day. I wanna say it was around 1,700 or 1,800 calories a day with a heavy focus on protein. Now everybody's talking about protein, but then, like, it wasn't like it was something like what protein? So it was really a new way of thinking.

anne marie: 12:02

So it attacked macro, which macronutrients, carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, and learned that you could create body composition through, like, careful moderation of, like, the the amount of protein versus carbs versus fats that you consume. So the combination of, like, eating more whole food, better food, not leaning on, you know, junk or takeout, which was what I was consuming a lot of, really helped not only re re reshape me physically, but also mentally and and everything. So that was that was surprising. And I guess as it pertains to alcohol, the cravings for it kind of went away.

mike: 12:53

So Tell me about the conversation in your head when you decided, I'm gonna do this thing with the fitness. What did what was the conversation you had with yourself around that alcohol?

anne marie: 13:03

Yeah. Yeah. I had a profound dissatisfaction with how I looked and how I felt. I was waking up in the morning, not feeling great about myself. I think seeing that woman in the gym inspired me to realize that things are changeable.

anne marie: 13:29

You know, just because we feel a certain way right now doesn't mean that we can't reshape that for tomorrow. And seeing her kind of work on herself and kicking her own ass and sweating, and it's not it was hard, really inspired me to kind of kick my own ass and kind of feel like I don't have this doesn't have to be my permanent state, that it is changeable. I know that sounds stupid, but

mike: 14:01

but it

anne marie: 14:02

really it was really It's

mike: 14:04

such a good it's such a good, right attitude that you had built in because a lot of people don't. They think, you know, I'm in this when you're in this thing that can be in this cycle of unhealthy, not only unhealthy patterns for behavior, but also unhealthy thoughts. And somehow you were able to loop yourself out of that with a with a really healthy mindset, so I don't think it sounds stupid at all.

anne marie: 14:29

You know, what's so striking to me also is that it was just a micro moment in my life. You know, seeing that woman was just a moment. And it was this moment that changed the course of my life in, like, unbelievable ways. And I don't know if there's a lesson in that about paying attention to things like I could have easily maybe brush the moment off. Well, like that's great for her, but it's not me and like, whatever, and I've moved on.

anne marie: 15:04

But like, you know, sometimes when things happen in our lives, like, and they touch us or they inspire us or make us wanna do better or like, I don't know, maybe like really pay attention to that, you know, because you don't know what direction it might take you in. I don't know. Maybe it's like, don't don't brush off your gut.

mike: 15:28

A %. Yeah. It definitely well, you definitely gotta lead with your gut or whatever you wanna label it. And then if you think about it on the flip side of things, the things that you do can affect other people in ways that you have no idea. And and I speak from the positive side of things.

mike: 15:44

Of course, the negative. We all know that. But, you know, if, for example, if somebody is listening here and they've made an adjustment with how they were drinking, and then all of a sudden, their friend who's been struggling sees how well they're doing. And it might just be second nature and they're doing it for themselves, but all of a sudden, that example sparks a change in somebody else. And that could be that micro moment that you're talking about.

mike: 16:08

So we all have the the capability to do that ourselves, whether we know we're doing it or not by just making the choices that feel right.

anne marie: 16:18

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.

mike: 16:21

So I wanna talk about, you changed this with alcohol. Like, you made this change, but then you felt like maybe it was restrictive or you'd get off of this competing cycle, and then you didn't have to be so restrictive. So it seems like you were kind of experiencing this yo yo. Can you Yeah. Talk a little bit about that?

anne marie: 16:43

Yeah. So one of the interesting and kind of dangerous parts of bodybuilding is that, you know, it the diet gets very restrictive, before your show day. So, you know, and we we talk about, you know, getting stage stage lean, which when I am stage lean, I'm at, like, you know, nine or 10% body fat. It's not sustainable. Looks pretty great on a stage in a sparkly bikini and a spray tan, clear stripper heels, but it's not meant for the lung.

anne marie: 17:22

So when we're finished competing, we reverse. We reverse diets gradually start building, building, building, upping the cows and building our bodies back so that they're not so lean. So as part of that, like, you start to discover yummy food again that you couldn't, you know, necessarily eat while you were super restricted. So, you know, that's when a lot of bodybuilders pile on pounds because they're like, woo, you know? All you can eat.

anne marie: 17:59

So, that was hard. It was like, you know, come like, reversing, kind of trying to find I struggle with that a little bit. And also, like, everybody tells you how great you look when you're stage lean. Like, oh my god. You look so great.

anne marie: 18:13

You look and then, like, you know, you start to, like, see the pounds. You know, your your mind is, like, geared to see yourself in the mirror in a certain way, and then you're, like, reversing your scene. So it's kind of this giant mindset. So, as yeah. So the drinking, like so the drinking I wouldn't say, like, it came back, but it was, like, you know, I went I didn't drink again to the to the level of, like, the before.

anne marie: 18:43

Like, I you know, I started consuming it again. And And, yeah. And it was just kind of like hard for me to like find the middle. So like the revert, I had trouble with like the reverse and recalibrating myself. So it took, like, a couple competition cycles for me to get that under control.

anne marie: 19:08

So what I will say is I feel like this last competition cycle that I was in, like, years ago, a year and a half ago, I felt like I successfully reversed. And the the approach I have with alcohol, I would say, is now one of almost, like, respect. And I know maybe that's not the right word, but kind of like that saying, I can enjoy it, but it also has the ability to go down a knock Great Road. So I really like, I if if my partner and I go out to a restaurant and I order a glass of wine, I really make sure to enjoy it, like, enjoy it for what it is and slow it way down. And usually I'm like, I'll find that I'm really good with one glass, like, and maybe initially it feels like, oh, I like, if the waiter comes and wants to know if I have a if I want a second one, like, my knee jerk would normally be like, oh, yes.

mike: 20:19

Mhmm.

anne marie: 20:19

But if I give it time, I usually feel like after, you know, ten minutes, like I'm actually good. And for me, that's so worth it. It's so worth it because I really hate the feeling of like the next day, not feeling great. Especially at my, I just turned 15. So it's like my body doesn't tolerate stuff that doesn't feel good the way it used to.

mike: 20:44

That pause that you talk about, it works. And it the pause doesn't have to be ten minutes for everybody. Sometimes the pause can be ninety seconds, and they change their mind if they're thinking about it. For me, when I find myself in that situation, yeah, about ten minutes. But here's and then in that ten minutes, if I still am second guessing, I always remind myself, I don't think I've ever woken up and said to myself, I wish I woulda had that extra drink last night.

anne marie: 21:11

That's right.

mike: 21:12

Always say, you know, I wish I didn't. So in that time, I'm like, will I regret it tomorrow? If the answer is yes, then you already know your brain's trying to trick you, and you should just, like, let it go. And I think that's

anne marie: 21:24

god. I love that so much.

mike: 21:26

Perfect perfect waiting period.

anne marie: 21:28

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know. Like, I don't know if that sounds silly, but this idea of, like, really kind of respecting the thing. Like, okay, This is a choice.

anne marie: 21:42

I'm gonna enjoy it, but it's a choice. And I'm making that choice, and that's okay. Just really giving it kind of its due and a pause, I think, really helps a lot. And it's like, I guess that's one of the things about, like, my moderation journey. Like, I'm so part of my experience, like, I'm so rush rush into, like, you know, I eat fast and like, I, you know, I make fast decisions and everything is like hustle and I'm good at the hustle, but like really kind of slowing things down a little bit when it comes to alcohol.

anne marie: 22:19

Yeah. And food too.

mike: 22:21

I don't think it sounds silly at all that you give it what what you said was respect, or you could you could say maybe I put a a warning label on it for myself or whatever. But, you know, and because one of the one of the things that some people say out there that are advocate that, like, things like moderation don't work is that if you drink, you're gonna go right back to where you were. And and usually my thought is is, yeah, I will go right back to where I was if I approached it with the same mindset as I did before. That doesn't mean it's ever it's always gonna be perfect. But if I don't change something, if I don't put that that warning label on it and just go right back to the way I was with no regard, then, yeah, of course, it's gonna go that way.

mike: 23:02

But anything that you give that you give effort to and you're trying to make changes, then, yeah, you're gonna approach it differently.

anne marie: 23:10

Yep. Yep.

mike: 23:11

So you started you started down this moderation route because you just you you recognize some patterns with yourself. Now, obviously, we're here on Sunnyside. You came across Sunnyside. You know, what's tell us about that. Like, what stood out to it?

mike: 23:24

What was your experience?

anne marie: 23:26

So I was at a help conference and where I met Nick and he told me about this app and I was blown away. I thought it was such a great story. And I wanted to learn more. So I signed up for the free trial and was really impressed at, like, the the check ins and, you know, the community and how people were kind of communicative and kind of grappling with the same thoughtful approach that I had. When I met Nick over coffee and he was kinda showing me the, he had mentioned this sort of, like, wait waiting approach that had worked for him.

anne marie: 24:17

And, like, waiting bef before ordering a second one or waiting to see how just one so that really Yeah. Kind of influenced me with this, like, approach that, you know, give it five to ten minutes before reaching first another one. I just found that really effective. And I, I liked, I liked the community and I liked the little reminders. So no.

anne marie: 24:44

I think I think it's great.

mike: 24:46

So you track everything when it comes to your food. Have you taken the same approach? I'm just asking total curiosity off the cuff. Have you taken the same kind of, like, tracking when it comes to also the alcohol?

anne marie: 24:59

So yes. I I track everything. So the like, so in in the competition season, I I'm not drinking just because my calories are really restrictive. And, like, I just wanna, like, I'd rather eat something than, like, have a drink. In the in the off season, when I can drink, if I if I choose to, I I'll I'll I'll put it in.

anne marie: 25:26

I use my fitness pal for food, and so I'll put it in if I happen to have a beer or a glass of wine or something.

mike: 25:35

So everything like you probably don't have enough of these days that you have to be as rigid as maybe you do with the diet.

anne marie: 25:44

Yeah. Yeah. It's not, you know and what I do so interestingly, you probably know this. So you because I track macronutrients, carbs, proteins, and fat, alcohol doesn't fall under any of those categories. So I'll put it in as, like, some combination of carb and fat even though that's not quite right.

anne marie: 26:10

But so it does get counted, you know, for something. But I would say it's it's not say maybe once a week. You know, if I go out to dinner and have a glass of wine or if we're having, like, you know, if we're doing, like, a movie night or we're watching a show on Netflix and, you know, we wanna have a glass of wine. How

mike: 26:34

you know, I wanna ask you, how obstructive is alcohol when it comes to, like, gaining muscle and burning fat? Because I'm I'm sure that you know some of this info information.

anne marie: 26:46

Yeah. It's it's it's not great. It it really, like, slows your metabol I mean, I felt it. There's science that shows how it slows your metabolism. And I will say, like, when I'm not drinking, I I feel way better.

anne marie: 27:04

Like like, I feel, like, to the point where, like, I don't need that stuff at all. Actually, I could probably go go turkey because I feel so good. You know? But for me, it's just not realistic. Like, you know, of course, like, you know, eventually, I'll go to a restaurant and then, like, if I'm having pasta

mike: 27:23

Oh, yeah. There's So

anne marie: 27:25

it's there's that effect. Have, like, a, a glass of wine with it. You know? So so yeah. So it's just like moderation is to me is everything, and it's something like I've really worked hard on.

anne marie: 27:41

That is my challenge. So yeah, I feel like the other thing is like, when I feel like I've nailed that, I feel really proud of myself. Like, I feel really good. And it's so much better to go to bed or wake up in the morning having felt good about, like, decision that decision that you made. So that's also something I kinda pay attention to.

anne marie: 28:07

Like, I don't enjoy the that next morning feeling like, ugh, feel lousy. I should not have had that second or third. Yeah. It feels good to be in control.

mike: 28:20

Yeah. You gotta pay attention to the small wins and know you know, I I talk about when you make mistakes, they're opportunities to grow and learn. And it's just like what you just said there is, like, I know that if I have that second one, I've already learned that lesson. I don't need to learn that lesson again.

anne marie: 28:39

Right. Right.

mike: 28:40

You you wrote a book, and it's about to come out. I wanna talk about this because it's very relevant to a lot of our listeners who are in their forties and fifties and women. So, you know, you wrote the book, and I want you to talk about that. What's the core message that you want that you want to deliver to the readers?

anne marie: 29:01

The book is about the history of the skinny ideal and what a boneheaded mess skinny has been for women and for society as a whole and how the secret sauce to everything, I think, is muscle and how and why women should start building themselves and to think about fitness and wellness as something to build rather than constantly trying to obsess about reducing themselves. So the first third of the book is about the sort of history of the skinny obsession. And what struck me was that I realized, like, as a journalist looking at studies and looking at historical documents that women were never meant to be thin. Like, this whole notion of skinny is, like, a very recent phenomenon that if you look at prehistory and history, you know, before the eighteen fifties and nineteen hundreds, women were pretty buff. Like, you know, prehistoric bones showed that bone structure of women then was about the size of champion rowers today.

anne marie: 30:22

So women weren't out there, like picking berries in the field. Like they were, you know, an integral part of agriculture, and they were hunting, and they were buffed. And so my whole thing was, like, holy shit. Like, that's the OG woman. That's, like, what we should be, you know, that's where we perform better.

anne marie: 30:44

And it was clear in my life that when I started building muscle for myself, everything got better. My work got better. I looked better. When I started thinking about fitness and wellness as more of me building, I like grew as a person. I started feeling confident or wearing lipstick again.

anne marie: 31:05

I, you know, put together a match.com profile. I met my fiance. Like, everything got better. And I was just like, what the hell? Like, there's gotta be science to this.

anne marie: 31:17

Right? So it's a look at kind of why skinny why skinny is, like, bullshit and why we should, like, really think about building ourselves and building our bodies to be optimal. And I'm totally convinced it's all about muscle. So So the second part of the book is about okay. Okay.

anne marie: 31:38

Okay. So, like, how do we do this? And so I I, you know, talk a lot about protein and the argument with the science of of muscle in terms of, like, longevity, you know, why it's beneficial in all kinds of ways. And then the last part of the book is there's a lot of, like, how to so I you know, there's a training program, how to lift, how to think about putting together a lifting program, how to eat. And, you know, I weave in stories of, like, all kinds of badass women that I've come across in my journey.

anne marie: 32:10

And I also weave in my own, you know, personal story. You know, my journey from, you know, having a rough time to kind of becoming this bodybuilder and how it's reshaped me. So that's what the book is.

mike: 32:27

Sounds amazing. And as you're saying it, it reminds me earlier this week, I had an interview with a guy named Craig Ballantine. And Craig is, like, a master of habits and discipline, and he has something that he mentioned during it called the elegant solution. Or an elegant solution is a solution than when everything gets better in your life. And for you, it sounds like the strength training and the diet and taking a different perception as far as what the ideal body should be for me or for women or for myself, and you found it.

mike: 33:01

And so I think this book sounds amazing because there's gotta be somebody that's listening right now that this is also an elegant solution that you're writing about for them. So I think it's amazing that you wrote it, and I'm really glad that you talked about it there. And if anybody is listening that has interest to find out more about it, can you tell us when and where it's gonna be available?

anne marie: 33:25

So it's on presale now, and you can find it, you know, if you Google Lyft, you can find it on Amazon and, you know, where bookstores, Target, Walmart, all those places. And then it's going to hit shelves June 17. So you can pre order it now and it'll be on your mailbox, June 17 and on shelves then.

mike: 33:48

Awesome. I love it. And then if somebody wants to get it, to get ahold of you, find more information about you, where they where should we go?

anne marie: 33:56

So I would love people to subscribe to my Substack, which is also called Lyft. And, you can find me on Substack through touching in my name. And I've got a website, which is my name, annemariechaecker.com. And

mike: 34:16

I love it. Well, thanks so much for coming on today. Thanks for being an open book on everything and being vulnerable and strong at the same time. It's so it was just a great conversation, and I appreciate you taking the time to come and share.

anne marie: 34:32

Super fun. Thank you.

mike: 34:35

This podcast is brought to you by SunnySide, the number one alcohol moderation platform. And if you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free fifteen day trial.